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Not all of those happened exclusively outside of Europe - there was some parallel development in Europe as well (transistor, computers). The transistor was inde

Not all of those happened exclusively outside of Europe - there was some parallel development in Europe as well (transistor, computers). The transistor was independently developed in France shortly before the public announcement by Bell Labs. And the arguable first working "modern" digital computer (programmable, fully automated, using floating point) was the Z3 in 1941 (which started the Zuse KG, a computer hardware company, which lasted until ~1970). And most of the first few search engines were based in Europe (mostly Geneva).. and you might also have heard of a small invention out of CERN that you are using right now..

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ur-whale 8y ago
I'm very sorry, but it's hard not to laugh at this list ... and to try and be objective: these examples make my point even stronger. None of the folks who may or may not have been the first to invent these things in Europe managed to exploit the economic potential of what they had invented. It is a deeply sad commentary of how much of bright people's potential is utterly pissed down the drain every day in Europe. Oh, also, you forgot to mention that the French invented the internet first (t'was called the minitel). The minitel was a perfect example of a government-run tech. program: 10 years after it was launched, it was still operating at the original speed of 300 bps. One of very many brilliant ideas left to rot on the altar of socialist-run centralized western europe societies.
- welterde 8y ago
  > and to try and be objective: these examples make my point even stronger. Maybe you forgot, but you claimed that almost all the important technical innovations of the 20th century happened outside of Europe. When asked for evidence you produced a list, which includes innovations that were developed in parallel in Europe as well (or even predate the development outside of Europe). Or is your argument that only who ends up winning in the end (by some arbitrary metric) is the true inventor of some technology? So how exactly does it make your point stronger? > None of the folks who may or may not have been the first to invent these things in Europe managed to exploit the economic potential of what they had invented. By all accounts the Zuse KG did quite well for a few decades, before a few questionable business decisions ended it (and it was bought out by Siemens). But initially he indeed was able to exploit it's commercial potential (in fact he was the first person to do so..). > It is a deeply sad commentary of how much of bright people's potential is utterly pissed down the drain every day in Europe. And that's not the case in the US..? And exactly how or why is this happening here and not in the US? Fair point about Minitel, but that doesn't translate into all aspects of technology.. far from it.
  - ur-whale 8y ago
    When I talk about innovation, I don't just mean having ideas or inventing things. Without falling into clichés, having ideas is the easy part. And, TBH, who gives two hoots about who had an idea first as compared to the guy who has the idea and takes it to a planet-sized success? Getting something to work and then into a commercially viable operation is what I am talking about when I talk about innovation. I don't doubt there's plenty of German or French or whatever with brilliant ideas. But 10 years later that's all they are: ideas. Or they are taken over by others and grown into what they need to be. Innovation is about having the right idea and making it take off. All the important technical innovations in the 20th century - as in: those who have had a sizable impact on humanity, happened outside Europe.
    - welterde 8y ago
      Completely true that having the idea is the easy part. But you are missing a few steps between having the idea and world domination.. > Getting something to work and then into a commercially viable operation is what I am talking about when I talk about innovation. Which the Zuse KG was for the (early) Computer. Still - you are using innovation in a different way to most people. Most people don't have the global domination requirement. This very much seems like moving the goal posts to me. > All the important technical innovations in the 20th century - as in: those who have had a sizable impact on humanity, happened outside Europe. Now that is completely false, since the arguable most important technical innovation (by impact) of the 20th century, the Haber-Bosch process, was invented in Germany. And the WWW also had quite an impact I would argue.. Never mind more subtle things, like industrial control systems (where Siemens has taken it global) and industrial machines in general (which is also an quite successful area). Things outside the Internet still exist and still have an impact on humanity. And you haven't answered how the potential of bright people is currently being pissed away in Europe today.

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ur-whale 8y ago

I'm very sorry, but it's hard not to laugh at this list ... and to try and be objective: these examples make my point even stronger. None of the folks who may or may not have been the first to invent these things in Europe managed to exploit the economic potential of what they had invented. It is a deeply sad commentary of how much of bright people's potential is utterly pissed down the drain every day in Europe. Oh, also, you forgot to mention that the French invented the internet first (t'was called the minitel). The minitel was a perfect example of a government-run tech. program: 10 years after it was launched, it was still operating at the original speed of 300 bps. One of very many brilliant ideas left to rot on the altar of socialist-run centralized western europe societies.

welterde 8y ago
> and to try and be objective: these examples make my point even stronger. Maybe you forgot, but you claimed that almost all the important technical innovations of the 20th century happened outside of Europe. When asked for evidence you produced a list, which includes innovations that were developed in parallel in Europe as well (or even predate the development outside of Europe). Or is your argument that only who ends up winning in the end (by some arbitrary metric) is the true inventor of some technology? So how exactly does it make your point stronger? > None of the folks who may or may not have been the first to invent these things in Europe managed to exploit the economic potential of what they had invented. By all accounts the Zuse KG did quite well for a few decades, before a few questionable business decisions ended it (and it was bought out by Siemens). But initially he indeed was able to exploit it's commercial potential (in fact he was the first person to do so..). > It is a deeply sad commentary of how much of bright people's potential is utterly pissed down the drain every day in Europe. And that's not the case in the US..? And exactly how or why is this happening here and not in the US? Fair point about Minitel, but that doesn't translate into all aspects of technology.. far from it.
- ur-whale 8y ago
  When I talk about innovation, I don't just mean having ideas or inventing things. Without falling into clichés, having ideas is the easy part. And, TBH, who gives two hoots about who had an idea first as compared to the guy who has the idea and takes it to a planet-sized success? Getting something to work and then into a commercially viable operation is what I am talking about when I talk about innovation. I don't doubt there's plenty of German or French or whatever with brilliant ideas. But 10 years later that's all they are: ideas. Or they are taken over by others and grown into what they need to be. Innovation is about having the right idea and making it take off. All the important technical innovations in the 20th century - as in: those who have had a sizable impact on humanity, happened outside Europe.
  - welterde 8y ago
    Completely true that having the idea is the easy part. But you are missing a few steps between having the idea and world domination.. > Getting something to work and then into a commercially viable operation is what I am talking about when I talk about innovation. Which the Zuse KG was for the (early) Computer. Still - you are using innovation in a different way to most people. Most people don't have the global domination requirement. This very much seems like moving the goal posts to me. > All the important technical innovations in the 20th century - as in: those who have had a sizable impact on humanity, happened outside Europe. Now that is completely false, since the arguable most important technical innovation (by impact) of the 20th century, the Haber-Bosch process, was invented in Germany. And the WWW also had quite an impact I would argue.. Never mind more subtle things, like industrial control systems (where Siemens has taken it global) and industrial machines in general (which is also an quite successful area). Things outside the Internet still exist and still have an impact on humanity. And you haven't answered how the potential of bright people is currently being pissed away in Europe today.