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> Society hasn't found a rational way to redistribute wealth yet. There is no purely rational way to redistribute wealth (or, really, no rational way to actual

> Society hasn't found a rational way to redistribute wealth yet. There is no purely rational way to redistribute wealth (or, really, no rational way to actually do anything). Rationality is a tool that allows you to choose the path of action that best fits your goals/values. It does not prescribe any values. What we (as a society) do right now to redistribute wealth may very well be "the rational way" relative to some set of values. So what you're actually saying is: Society hasn't found a way to redistribute wealth that fits your value system.

thomasahle 8y ago
Some people believe that it is possible to derive values. But even if you don't, it is still very possible that the way most things are done is inconsistent with most peoples values. Simply because using rationality to go from values to policies is computationally hard and can give counter-intuitive results.
lmm 8y ago
The efficient frontier is large, but a lot of the things we do are just dead-weight losses. There are cases of incompatible values where we have to make trade-offs, sure, but there are also cases where we're being irrational under any value system.
- majewsky 8y ago
  > but there are also cases where we're being irrational under any value system I think the set of possible value systems is much larger than you appreciate. For example, nuclear war is perfectly rational when your value system is "KILL ALL HUMANS".
kepler425b 8y ago
I would argue that we have figured out a way to distribute wealth (planet resources really) but the capitalistic economy system that we are tangled makes changing anything almost impossible unless it was a global change. Many philosophers and scientists that actually do something came up with various ideas, main one is resource based economy coupled with technology. The idea is that we set our values to waste as less resources as possible and make products according to our actual needs, no chocolate taste toothpase or any other nonsense. You put scientific method into play and set goal values to most optimal for our well being, psychology (no meaningless jobs, since almost everything can be automized, instead provide people with whatever tools they need to do anything they want.), health and the planet itself - no rape needlessly. Anyone interested have a look at Peter Jospeh video series - culture in decline.
perfmode 8y ago
the way we redistribute wealth right now is through busy work. this is incredibly irrational. once we recognize that, we can start thinking about alternatives in earnest.

thomasahle 8y ago

Some people believe that it is possible to derive values. But even if you don't, it is still very possible that the way most things are done is inconsistent with most peoples values. Simply because using rationality to go from values to policies is computationally hard and can give counter-intuitive results.

lmm 8y ago

The efficient frontier is large, but a lot of the things we do are just dead-weight losses. There are cases of incompatible values where we have to make trade-offs, sure, but there are also cases where we're being irrational under any value system.

majewsky 8y ago
> but there are also cases where we're being irrational under any value system I think the set of possible value systems is much larger than you appreciate. For example, nuclear war is perfectly rational when your value system is "KILL ALL HUMANS".

kepler425b 8y ago

I would argue that we have figured out a way to distribute wealth (planet resources really) but the capitalistic economy system that we are tangled makes changing anything almost impossible unless it was a global change. Many philosophers and scientists that actually do something came up with various ideas, main one is resource based economy coupled with technology. The idea is that we set our values to waste as less resources as possible and make products according to our actual needs, no chocolate taste toothpase or any other nonsense. You put scientific method into play and set goal values to most optimal for our well being, psychology (no meaningless jobs, since almost everything can be automized, instead provide people with whatever tools they need to do anything they want.), health and the planet itself - no rape needlessly. Anyone interested have a look at Peter Jospeh video series - culture in decline.

perfmode 8y ago

the way we redistribute wealth right now is through busy work. this is incredibly irrational. once we recognize that, we can start thinking about alternatives in earnest.