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Anti-intellectualism is pretty strong in the UK too. For example in one of the defining moments of the Brexit campaign, Michael Gove was confronted by an open l

Anti-intellectualism is pretty strong in the UK too. For example in one of the defining moments of the Brexit campaign, Michael Gove was confronted by an open letter from a large number of leading economists saying how damaging Brexit would be to the economy and said “people in this country have had enough of experts”.

coldtea 8y ago
>“people in this country have had enough of experts”. Well, in an era when experts give their "expert" opinion based on who pays their bills, that's true for most of the world...
Smaug123 8y ago
While I have no love of Gove, this is a very unfair and context-free quote. The full quote is as follows: > I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts with organisations from acronyms saying - from organisations with acronyms - saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong, because these people - these people - are the same ones who got consistently wrong.
- Vinnl 8y ago
  Wow. I've seen the quote often, but never with that surrounding context. Completely makes you understand why politicians would be unwilling to talk with the press.
  - lordgrenville 8y ago
    Do you think that there's a substantial difference between "the public is tired of experts" and "the public is tired of experts from fancy organisations getting things wrong"? Sincerely asking - I think the context helps, but the short version doesn't seem like a misrepresentation of the main idea.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      Yes, there is. One is made to look like you don't want "experts" in general, e.g. because you're anti-science or whatever. You might not even want an expert doctor, but instead e.g. pray. The second is about not wanting BS experts (analysts, media pundits, economists) on the payroll of some "fancy organization", that have a track record of being wrong.
      - lordgrenville 8y ago
        OK, that is helpful. Thanks!
    - kamaal 8y ago
      Anti-Intellectualism has become a thing Offlate. Brexit, rise of Trump, Modi etc. Its the old classic thing of people wanting jobs they can't do, and then diluting the job requirements by downplaying the importance of people required to do the job.
    - SturgeonsLaw 8y ago
      I think it makes a difference, particularly when you look at the recent history of European economists promoting policies which have not only been unable to solve the problems they're facing, but have prolonged them (austerity measures, I'm looking at you).
    - Vinnl 8y ago
      Yes. One sounds like being anti-people-who-know-it-better, just because they disagree with you, the other is being anti-people-we-usually-listen-to-but-who-don't-actually-know-it-better. The former would be dumb, the second is completely understandable. Of course, the question is to what extent it is true that experts don't know better, but I'd prefer being wrong due to misinformation than due to sheer dumbness.
- lordgrenville 8y ago
  Thanks for clarifying that. While I still feel that the quote is totally wrong-headed, it sounds a good deal less stupid.
vixen99 8y ago
Maybe because '72% of economists in a Bloomberg poll immediately after the EU referendum vote predicted that there would be a recession in 2016 or 2017. In a Royal Economic Society survey of economists, 90% said there would be a short-term loss associated with Brexit.'. Similarly top economists predicted a recession in the US after the election. Neither occurred.
- iomind 8y ago
  Neither has brexit.
- geezerjay 8y ago
  Truth be told, the brexit hasn't happened yet, thus the causes of those recessions are not in place. IIRC even Corbin acknowledges that brexit will have a deep impact on the UK's economy.
tragic 8y ago
I think the connection is stronger than that. The jocks-rule culture of American high school is purloined from elite British schools, which were designed to crank out colonial functionaries with intense in-group loyalties. Alex Renton's book Stiff Upper Lip is good on this. In fact, while it is perhaps unsurprising that Rall has missed examples in Chinese and Indian languages listed elsewhere here, it's odd that he misses the many examples in British English - swot, spod, boffin ... Several of which originate in 'good' schools.

coldtea 8y ago

>“people in this country have had enough of experts”. Well, in an era when experts give their "expert" opinion based on who pays their bills, that's true for most of the world...

Smaug123 8y ago

While I have no love of Gove, this is a very unfair and context-free quote. The full quote is as follows: > I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts with organisations from acronyms saying - from organisations with acronyms - saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong, because these people - these people - are the same ones who got consistently wrong.

Vinnl 8y ago
Wow. I've seen the quote often, but never with that surrounding context. Completely makes you understand why politicians would be unwilling to talk with the press.
- lordgrenville 8y ago
  Do you think that there's a substantial difference between "the public is tired of experts" and "the public is tired of experts from fancy organisations getting things wrong"? Sincerely asking - I think the context helps, but the short version doesn't seem like a misrepresentation of the main idea.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Yes, there is. One is made to look like you don't want "experts" in general, e.g. because you're anti-science or whatever. You might not even want an expert doctor, but instead e.g. pray. The second is about not wanting BS experts (analysts, media pundits, economists) on the payroll of some "fancy organization", that have a track record of being wrong.
    - lordgrenville 8y ago
      OK, that is helpful. Thanks!
  - kamaal 8y ago
    Anti-Intellectualism has become a thing Offlate. Brexit, rise of Trump, Modi etc. Its the old classic thing of people wanting jobs they can't do, and then diluting the job requirements by downplaying the importance of people required to do the job.
  - SturgeonsLaw 8y ago
    I think it makes a difference, particularly when you look at the recent history of European economists promoting policies which have not only been unable to solve the problems they're facing, but have prolonged them (austerity measures, I'm looking at you).
  - Vinnl 8y ago
    Yes. One sounds like being anti-people-who-know-it-better, just because they disagree with you, the other is being anti-people-we-usually-listen-to-but-who-don't-actually-know-it-better. The former would be dumb, the second is completely understandable. Of course, the question is to what extent it is true that experts don't know better, but I'd prefer being wrong due to misinformation than due to sheer dumbness.
lordgrenville 8y ago
Thanks for clarifying that. While I still feel that the quote is totally wrong-headed, it sounds a good deal less stupid.

vixen99 8y ago

Maybe because '72% of economists in a Bloomberg poll immediately after the EU referendum vote predicted that there would be a recession in 2016 or 2017. In a Royal Economic Society survey of economists, 90% said there would be a short-term loss associated with Brexit.'. Similarly top economists predicted a recession in the US after the election. Neither occurred.

iomind 8y ago
Neither has brexit.
geezerjay 8y ago
Truth be told, the brexit hasn't happened yet, thus the causes of those recessions are not in place. IIRC even Corbin acknowledges that brexit will have a deep impact on the UK's economy.

tragic 8y ago

I think the connection is stronger than that. The jocks-rule culture of American high school is purloined from elite British schools, which were designed to crank out colonial functionaries with intense in-group loyalties. Alex Renton's book Stiff Upper Lip is good on this. In fact, while it is perhaps unsurprising that Rall has missed examples in Chinese and Indian languages listed elsewhere here, it's odd that he misses the many examples in British English - swot, spod, boffin ... Several of which originate in 'good' schools.