5 ms·

So, Germany is US controlled territory?

jolmg 8y ago
If national critical systems are running Windows or other US closed source tech, then technically yes. The US is potentially in control of these systems. This is true in Germany and in many (most?) other parts of the world. From the viewpoint of these nations, all the US needs to do is have Microsoft, Google, or whatever tech company is in control of a system of interest to insert malware or give the US government the private data it requests. I'm not saying it happens, but rather that it's certainly possible and completely in the US's playcourt to decide to control or not to control. This is why government computer systems should be open source or self-developed.
- IanSanders 8y ago
  >all the US needs to do is have Microsoft, Google, or whatever tech company is in control of a system of interest to insert malware or give the US government the private data it requests Don't even need that. Just utilize one of the numerous vulnerabilities before it's patched.
- mc32 8y ago
  >If national critical systems are running Windows or other US closed source tech, then technically yes. The US is potentially in control of these systems. What? So because US govt't systems run (or ran) Kaspersky (or TrendMicro) that means the US is (was) controlled, technically by Russia or Japan? Huh!
  - jolmg 8y ago
    I don't know those software or how widely utilized they are in the US and specifically in US national security critical systems. The US in a unique position, though. Windows and OSX are operating systems; they have complete control of everything else running in the systems they run on. Google has view of the world's web navigation, email authentication, as well as complete control over a grand portion of the world's phones (most of the other portion is controlled by Apple, also a US company), including knowledge of phone calls made between people, and their location at all times. Facebook also has great knowledge of how all people are interrelated. There's probably lots I'm missing, but the point is that most of the world's cyberspace (a useful word apparently) is controlled by the US. If we translate that to cyberwarfare, that means that the US practically has ALL the guns. A couple guns from other nations are not going to make a difference in this space.
    - mc32 8y ago
      At least Kaspersky was well deployed within DHS and DoD: a ban was set to prevent new deployments: http://www.executivegov.com/2018/06/dod-nasa-gsa-issue-interim-rule-to-ban-use-of-kaspersky-labs-products-services/ http://www.executivegov.com/2018/06/dod-nasa-gsa-issue-inter...
    - rurban 8y ago
      The problem is not the OS, the problem are the now the backdoors in the CPU's. In all of them. With them you get even into a foreign OS, like L3 or OpenBSD.
- c2k18 8y ago
  Good point I forgot to mention. Microsoft Windows‘ unstoppable telemetry is another really important note! Also somehow every experiment that tries to free us from this spyware (e.g. Munich Officials tried to use Linux) gets overpowered with someone throwing money at politicians who immediately change back everything to Windows...
mindslight 8y ago
The presence of US military bases would seem to indicate so...
- ionised 8y ago
  It has military bases and surveillance systems there so I'd say yes. I'd also wager that if they tried to force the US to leave, the US would respond with aggression, most likely economically.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Germany was occupied for decades after WWII. However, it's hard to imagine that it's still under US occupation now. I mean, how could something like that remain secret? But on the other hand, how would I know? And see "We're all living in America" aka "Amerika" by Ramstein <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM>.
  - ur-whale 8y ago
    Acid test: how many German military bases in the US? [edit]: Rammstein is one of my all-time favourite band.
  - mindslight 8y ago
    What needs to remain secret? At a certain level of presence, it's a de facto occupation. Could Germany, as a purportedly sovereign state, decide to start working against US foreign policy goals? Decide their interests were better served by making a pact with Russia and asking the US to leave? Running Microsoft's sieveware seems to be the least of their worries. I don't have a constructive answer to move towards . I just don't like the present-blindness exceptionalism that keeps the US from just being considered an empire, nor the centralization created by having essentially three sovereigns in the world.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      I agree that it's fundamentally an empire. It basically subsumed the British, French, German, Japanese, etc empires after WWII. I've seen some stuff online which suggests that the US made explicit deals about this with Britain and France, before joining the war. But I'm no historian, and am not qualified to have opinions about that.
c2k18 8y ago
Yes it is. Our communication is directly searchable by US secret service who have their office at DECIX for example. Also we are used by US forces to deploy US military to the east of Europe to anger the Russians without being able to stop it. Since WW2 they never really gave back control to us and nowadays they even support nazis again because they are so afraid of liberal & leftist thoughts and politics. They don’t even try to hide that, if you keep your eyes open you can see it...

If national critical systems are running Windows or other US closed source tech, then technically yes. The US is potentially in control of these systems. This is true in Germany and in many (most?) other parts of the world. From the viewpoint of these nations, all the US needs to do is have Microsoft, Google, or whatever tech company is in control of a system of interest to insert malware or give the US government the private data it requests. I'm not saying it happens, but rather that it's certainly possible and completely in the US's playcourt to decide to control or not to control. This is why government computer systems should be open source or self-developed.

IanSanders 8y ago
>all the US needs to do is have Microsoft, Google, or whatever tech company is in control of a system of interest to insert malware or give the US government the private data it requests Don't even need that. Just utilize one of the numerous vulnerabilities before it's patched.
mc32 8y ago
>If national critical systems are running Windows or other US closed source tech, then technically yes. The US is potentially in control of these systems. What? So because US govt't systems run (or ran) Kaspersky (or TrendMicro) that means the US is (was) controlled, technically by Russia or Japan? Huh!
- jolmg 8y ago
  I don't know those software or how widely utilized they are in the US and specifically in US national security critical systems. The US in a unique position, though. Windows and OSX are operating systems; they have complete control of everything else running in the systems they run on. Google has view of the world's web navigation, email authentication, as well as complete control over a grand portion of the world's phones (most of the other portion is controlled by Apple, also a US company), including knowledge of phone calls made between people, and their location at all times. Facebook also has great knowledge of how all people are interrelated. There's probably lots I'm missing, but the point is that most of the world's cyberspace (a useful word apparently) is controlled by the US. If we translate that to cyberwarfare, that means that the US practically has ALL the guns. A couple guns from other nations are not going to make a difference in this space.
  - mc32 8y ago
    At least Kaspersky was well deployed within DHS and DoD: a ban was set to prevent new deployments: http://www.executivegov.com/2018/06/dod-nasa-gsa-issue-interim-rule-to-ban-use-of-kaspersky-labs-products-services/ http://www.executivegov.com/2018/06/dod-nasa-gsa-issue-inter...
  - rurban 8y ago
    The problem is not the OS, the problem are the now the backdoors in the CPU's. In all of them. With them you get even into a foreign OS, like L3 or OpenBSD.
c2k18 8y ago
Good point I forgot to mention. Microsoft Windows‘ unstoppable telemetry is another really important note! Also somehow every experiment that tries to free us from this spyware (e.g. Munich Officials tried to use Linux) gets overpowered with someone throwing money at politicians who immediately change back everything to Windows...

mindslight 8y ago

The presence of US military bases would seem to indicate so...

ionised 8y ago
It has military bases and surveillance systems there so I'd say yes. I'd also wager that if they tried to force the US to leave, the US would respond with aggression, most likely economically.
mirimir 8y ago
Germany was occupied for decades after WWII. However, it's hard to imagine that it's still under US occupation now. I mean, how could something like that remain secret? But on the other hand, how would I know? And see "We're all living in America" aka "Amerika" by Ramstein <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM>.
- ur-whale 8y ago
  Acid test: how many German military bases in the US? [edit]: Rammstein is one of my all-time favourite band.
- mindslight 8y ago
  What needs to remain secret? At a certain level of presence, it's a de facto occupation. Could Germany, as a purportedly sovereign state, decide to start working against US foreign policy goals? Decide their interests were better served by making a pact with Russia and asking the US to leave? Running Microsoft's sieveware seems to be the least of their worries. I don't have a constructive answer to move towards . I just don't like the present-blindness exceptionalism that keeps the US from just being considered an empire, nor the centralization created by having essentially three sovereigns in the world.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    I agree that it's fundamentally an empire. It basically subsumed the British, French, German, Japanese, etc empires after WWII. I've seen some stuff online which suggests that the US made explicit deals about this with Britain and France, before joining the war. But I'm no historian, and am not qualified to have opinions about that.

c2k18 8y ago

Yes it is. Our communication is directly searchable by US secret service who have their office at DECIX for example. Also we are used by US forces to deploy US military to the east of Europe to anger the Russians without being able to stop it. Since WW2 they never really gave back control to us and nowadays they even support nazis again because they are so afraid of liberal & leftist thoughts and politics. They don’t even try to hide that, if you keep your eyes open you can see it...