3 ms·

The difference is liquifying "to the boiling point of the element with the 2nd lowest boiling temperature" (likely Neon @ 27K) and "liquifying down to Nitrogen"

by ant6n 8y ago

The difference is liquifying "to the boiling point of the element with the 2nd lowest boiling temperature" (likely Neon @ 27K) and "liquifying down to Nitrogen" (77K).

thaumasiotes 8y ago
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-gas_processing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-gas_processing , the helium is recovered from natural gas during the phase in which nitrogen is removed. Natural gas has very different content compared to the atmosphere. Let's also note that even ignoring the specific details of the process, what you're proposing is to use a pipeline which produces helium as a side effect of its intended use of producing methane, and which is usually run on a mixture of gases that is 1% or more helium, and apply it to a mixture of gases which will produce no methane and is 0.0005% helium. The helium is nearly worthless and there's barely any to harvest in the first place; there is no possible way for this to be economical.
- ant6n 8y ago
  Well, the idea is to produce Helium as a by-product of producing liquid nitrogen. But indeed, the numbers may not work out: About 8 million tons of liquid nitrogen is produced per year, growing 5% every year [1], largely from Cryogenic distillation. By mass, the ratio of Nitrogen and Helium in air is about 1e6 [2]. So that means, about 8 tons would be produced, which is 3.5 orders of magnitude away from the current size of the market (like 30 thousand tons). But it may be possible to use non-cryogenic processes [3] to increase the ratio of Helium in the air before separating out the nitrogen. So between the increase of the nitrogen market, the decrease in demand if Helium gets more expensive when traditional sources run out, and better processes, this means that Helium will likely continue to be available for very valuable use cases almost indefinitely. [1] https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/liquid-nitrogen-market https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/liquid-n... [2] http://www.uigi.com/air.html http://www.uigi.com/air.html [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_separation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_separation

by ant6n 8y ago

The difference is liquifying "to the boiling point of the element with the 2nd lowest boiling temperature" (likely Neon @ 27K) and "liquifying down to Nitrogen" (77K).

thaumasiotes 8y ago

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-gas_processing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-gas_processing , the helium is recovered from natural gas during the phase in which nitrogen is removed. Natural gas has very different content compared to the atmosphere. Let's also note that even ignoring the specific details of the process, what you're proposing is to use a pipeline which produces helium as a side effect of its intended use of producing methane, and which is usually run on a mixture of gases that is 1% or more helium, and apply it to a mixture of gases which will produce no methane and is 0.0005% helium. The helium is nearly worthless and there's barely any to harvest in the first place; there is no possible way for this to be economical.

ant6n 8y ago
Well, the idea is to produce Helium as a by-product of producing liquid nitrogen. But indeed, the numbers may not work out: About 8 million tons of liquid nitrogen is produced per year, growing 5% every year [1], largely from Cryogenic distillation. By mass, the ratio of Nitrogen and Helium in air is about 1e6 [2]. So that means, about 8 tons would be produced, which is 3.5 orders of magnitude away from the current size of the market (like 30 thousand tons). But it may be possible to use non-cryogenic processes [3] to increase the ratio of Helium in the air before separating out the nitrogen. So between the increase of the nitrogen market, the decrease in demand if Helium gets more expensive when traditional sources run out, and better processes, this means that Helium will likely continue to be available for very valuable use cases almost indefinitely. [1] https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/liquid-nitrogen-market https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/liquid-n... [2] http://www.uigi.com/air.html http://www.uigi.com/air.html [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_separation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_separation