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Ubuntu runs hot on the MBP and will chew through your battery power even if you aren't running it in a VM. So MacOS is Unix anyway, you say? Too bad the default

Ubuntu runs hot on the MBP and will chew through your battery power even if you aren't running it in a VM. So MacOS is Unix anyway, you say? Too bad the default libraries are a pain to upgrade, trivial applications like "locate" and "wget" are missing and you'll have to manually configure stuff like page up/page down if you want the terminal to be useful. I've had repeated issues compiling different "cross platform" applications on MacOS that compile painlessly under various Linux distributions and even Windows! So you end up being heavily reliant on "port" to install software instead of "./configure / make / make install". The last thing that drove me up the wall was a bizarre failure in statically-linking SQLite into a QT application. Every other platform worked. MacOS failed spectacularly. If you want a Linux laptop, get a Linux laptop. I'm only on a Macbook for video editing and iPhone/iPad development. It is excellent for that and it is a beautiful machine in many ways (love the chassis), but it is not nearly as good a platform for developers as Ubuntu by any means.

futuremint 16y ago
This is ultimately what led me to switch from OS X to Ubuntu. Been using Ubuntu full-time since May and its great! All those headaches are gone!
_jz 16y ago
What do you use for video editing? Just curious, since I have ports installed just to build kdenlive. I haven't had good luck with iMovie (crashing, poor MTS support, bloated AVHDC files, and choppy transcoding). I'm too cheap to buy Final Cut Pro, but would be interested in other options.
- trevelyan 16y ago
  iMovie honestly. Don't need much and it isn't really professional-level stuff. But it is a work-related need and I don't know of anything comparable for Linux.
kls 16y ago
So MacOS is Unix anyway, you say? I don't recall saying that it is or is not in my post above. Please don't put words in my mouth. but it is not nearly as good a platform for developers as Ubuntu by any means you are painting a pretty broad stroke there. I do web and mobile development, both require application like Photoshop, professional video editing tools while web specifically Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Opera and IE, Flash and a few others. For me Linux is not a superior development platform because getting some of these running is just as hacky as getting libs to work correctly on OSX. I use Netbeans as my development IDE which is available on OSX and I have to run a virtual for IE so for me OSX offers a happy middle-ground because I get iOS development while only having to trade running IE in a virtual. So while Ubuntu may be a superior development platform for what you do, it may not be for other developers. The original poster specifically highlighted web development tools. And for web development OSX offers a good value proposition. It has its frustrations just as other OS's do.
- bradleyland 16y ago
  Just a heads up, you can feel perfectly confident saying that OS X is Unix. Snow Leopard is UNIX 03 certified. http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3581.htm http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3581.htm
  - kls 16y ago
    Sure, I was more offended by words being placed in my mouth. Whether it is UNIX or not is irrelevant to me if it does what I need it to do, I don't really get hung up in the dogma.
    - qjz 16y ago
      I think the "you" was directed hypothetically at the reader, not you specifically. trevelyan makes some good points. I love my MBP, but consider it more of a host machine than a development machine. I do most of my development in VMs or while logged into various Linux machines. If you've never used OS X before, there are a few gotchas that can make it less suitable for cross platform development. Aside from Apple's unpredictable changes to upstream sources, my biggest complaint is the tendency of the Finder to leave turds everywhere it's been. I'm always disappointed when a vendor distributes source code with these intact (and by default, the Finder will try to write them to practically every network drive folder it visits). That's just one example of things you'll have to watch out for when you develop on the Mac.
c1sc0 16y ago
I've been using Macs as my development machines since before Darwin became OSX and that's the only thing that frustrates me sometimes: decent package/library management like on Linux. I've resorted to isolating these issues in VMs running Linux. Anyone else has a better approach? Do you --PREFIX everything you compile? This can be particularly painful for academic software: this type of soft has the annoying tendency to become abandonware the second the Phd thesis is written or publication has been accepted.
- bradleyland 16y ago
  Is using prefix really all that annoying? I run Ubuntu as well as OS X, and I like to keep my compiled software segregated from my package installed software. This means I "prefix everything". I mean really, using --prefix is minor in contrast to some of the other difficulties encountered when compiling software. Homebrew has advanced the state of package management on OS X significantly. Anyone considering a Mac laptop should look in to it to see if the packages you need are there. http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/ http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/
jonhendry 16y ago
locate isn't missing. The database isn't built by default, but you can do that. Mouse-Rig-Test:~ jon$ locate usage: locate [-0Scims] [-l limit] [-d database] pattern ... default database: `/var/db/locate.database' or $LOCATE_PATH Mouse-Rig-Test:~ jon$ which locate /usr/bin/locate
- wtallis 16y ago
  Or, just use mdfind, the command line interface to spotlight.
  - jonhendry 16y ago
    Spotlight can be a little wonky as far as what it indexes. At least by default, it ignores things locate doesn't.
b1twise 16y ago
The solution to it running warmer with Ubuntu is to run a utility to manage the fan speeds and keep it cooler. It works just fine for me that way. I've had a few Thinkpads running Ubuntu and now a MBP running Ubuntu.. and I prefer the MBP.
onedognight 16y ago
Ubuntu runs hot on the MBP and will chew through your battery power This was the case with my Lenovo as well until I found powertop and followed its suggestions.
mkramlich 16y ago
I take issue with several of the items you mentioned: One, Terminal on Mac is extremely useful, even if the Page Up/Down keys don't work. Second, those keys do what I expect in Terminal right now on my Mac, and I've done nothing special to get them working. Third, Mac does come with curl preinstalled, which fits a very similar tool niche to wget. In general, it is true that there are some Linux-centric tools and packages that currently don't build easily or have preexisting binary ports for Mac, however, that's true in reverse as well. And I can assure you that Mac provides a much more Linux-like experience in a terminal than MS Windows. Also, keep in mind, that with many of the software packages in the Open Source world, it's up to individual people to do the work to get a particular package working perfectly on a particular platform permutation. Nobody "owes" you anything, or guarantees any particular permutation will be perfect. Therefore, while there might be 1000's of libraries and applications that do work perfectly and have equal availability on Linux and Mac, it may not be wise to assume that everything will be, and then cite any specific imperfection as "bizarre" or spectacular failure. It's just software, it's very complex, and if nobody has come before you to smooth that particular cow path then it won't be smooth unless you yourself do the smoothing. :)
- trevelyan 16y ago
  > those keys do what I expect in Terminal right now on my Mac, and I've done nothing special to get them working. Try using vim or other applications that run in the command-line. > And I can assure you that Mac provides a much more Linux-like experience in a terminal than MS Windows. Yes. A much more Linux like experience than Windows. And a much less Linux like experience than Linux.
  - mkramlich 16y ago
    vim: k, but vi and other CLI apps tend to already have keys for doing paging that are "native" to the app and/or more "homerow friendly". The Page Up/Down keys on many keyboard tend to be in awkward locations like far off to the right side, for example, of where the center of typing gravity is located.

futuremint 16y ago

This is ultimately what led me to switch from OS X to Ubuntu. Been using Ubuntu full-time since May and its great! All those headaches are gone!

_jz 16y ago

What do you use for video editing? Just curious, since I have ports installed just to build kdenlive. I haven't had good luck with iMovie (crashing, poor MTS support, bloated AVHDC files, and choppy transcoding). I'm too cheap to buy Final Cut Pro, but would be interested in other options.

trevelyan 16y ago
iMovie honestly. Don't need much and it isn't really professional-level stuff. But it is a work-related need and I don't know of anything comparable for Linux.

kls 16y ago

So MacOS is Unix anyway, you say? I don't recall saying that it is or is not in my post above. Please don't put words in my mouth. but it is not nearly as good a platform for developers as Ubuntu by any means you are painting a pretty broad stroke there. I do web and mobile development, both require application like Photoshop, professional video editing tools while web specifically Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Opera and IE, Flash and a few others. For me Linux is not a superior development platform because getting some of these running is just as hacky as getting libs to work correctly on OSX. I use Netbeans as my development IDE which is available on OSX and I have to run a virtual for IE so for me OSX offers a happy middle-ground because I get iOS development while only having to trade running IE in a virtual. So while Ubuntu may be a superior development platform for what you do, it may not be for other developers. The original poster specifically highlighted web development tools. And for web development OSX offers a good value proposition. It has its frustrations just as other OS's do.

bradleyland 16y ago
Just a heads up, you can feel perfectly confident saying that OS X is Unix. Snow Leopard is UNIX 03 certified. http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3581.htm http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3581.htm
- kls 16y ago
  Sure, I was more offended by words being placed in my mouth. Whether it is UNIX or not is irrelevant to me if it does what I need it to do, I don't really get hung up in the dogma.
  - qjz 16y ago
    I think the "you" was directed hypothetically at the reader, not you specifically. trevelyan makes some good points. I love my MBP, but consider it more of a host machine than a development machine. I do most of my development in VMs or while logged into various Linux machines. If you've never used OS X before, there are a few gotchas that can make it less suitable for cross platform development. Aside from Apple's unpredictable changes to upstream sources, my biggest complaint is the tendency of the Finder to leave turds everywhere it's been. I'm always disappointed when a vendor distributes source code with these intact (and by default, the Finder will try to write them to practically every network drive folder it visits). That's just one example of things you'll have to watch out for when you develop on the Mac.

c1sc0 16y ago

I've been using Macs as my development machines since before Darwin became OSX and that's the only thing that frustrates me sometimes: decent package/library management like on Linux. I've resorted to isolating these issues in VMs running Linux. Anyone else has a better approach? Do you --PREFIX everything you compile? This can be particularly painful for academic software: this type of soft has the annoying tendency to become abandonware the second the Phd thesis is written or publication has been accepted.

bradleyland 16y ago
Is using prefix really all that annoying? I run Ubuntu as well as OS X, and I like to keep my compiled software segregated from my package installed software. This means I "prefix everything". I mean really, using --prefix is minor in contrast to some of the other difficulties encountered when compiling software. Homebrew has advanced the state of package management on OS X significantly. Anyone considering a Mac laptop should look in to it to see if the packages you need are there. http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/ http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/

jonhendry 16y ago

locate isn't missing. The database isn't built by default, but you can do that. Mouse-Rig-Test:~ jon$ locate usage: locate [-0Scims] [-l limit] [-d database] pattern ... default database: `/var/db/locate.database' or $LOCATE_PATH Mouse-Rig-Test:~ jon$ which locate /usr/bin/locate

wtallis 16y ago
Or, just use mdfind, the command line interface to spotlight.
- jonhendry 16y ago
  Spotlight can be a little wonky as far as what it indexes. At least by default, it ignores things locate doesn't.

b1twise 16y ago

The solution to it running warmer with Ubuntu is to run a utility to manage the fan speeds and keep it cooler. It works just fine for me that way. I've had a few Thinkpads running Ubuntu and now a MBP running Ubuntu.. and I prefer the MBP.

onedognight 16y ago

Ubuntu runs hot on the MBP and will chew through your battery power This was the case with my Lenovo as well until I found powertop and followed its suggestions.

mkramlich 16y ago

I take issue with several of the items you mentioned: One, Terminal on Mac is extremely useful, even if the Page Up/Down keys don't work. Second, those keys do what I expect in Terminal right now on my Mac, and I've done nothing special to get them working. Third, Mac does come with curl preinstalled, which fits a very similar tool niche to wget. In general, it is true that there are some Linux-centric tools and packages that currently don't build easily or have preexisting binary ports for Mac, however, that's true in reverse as well. And I can assure you that Mac provides a much more Linux-like experience in a terminal than MS Windows. Also, keep in mind, that with many of the software packages in the Open Source world, it's up to individual people to do the work to get a particular package working perfectly on a particular platform permutation. Nobody "owes" you anything, or guarantees any particular permutation will be perfect. Therefore, while there might be 1000's of libraries and applications that do work perfectly and have equal availability on Linux and Mac, it may not be wise to assume that everything will be, and then cite any specific imperfection as "bizarre" or spectacular failure. It's just software, it's very complex, and if nobody has come before you to smooth that particular cow path then it won't be smooth unless you yourself do the smoothing. :)

trevelyan 16y ago
> those keys do what I expect in Terminal right now on my Mac, and I've done nothing special to get them working. Try using vim or other applications that run in the command-line. > And I can assure you that Mac provides a much more Linux-like experience in a terminal than MS Windows. Yes. A much more Linux like experience than Windows. And a much less Linux like experience than Linux.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  vim: k, but vi and other CLI apps tend to already have keys for doing paging that are "native" to the app and/or more "homerow friendly". The Page Up/Down keys on many keyboard tend to be in awkward locations like far off to the right side, for example, of where the center of typing gravity is located.