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How are you going to cash that out? Do you want to hold onto a lifestyle company shares when there's no potential liquidity event in discussion? I'm not going

by sushid 8y ago

How are you going to cash that out? Do you want to hold onto a lifestyle company shares when there's no potential liquidity event in discussion? I'm not going to exercise my options in that situation and you'd be crazy to pay taxes on this year after year.

tptacek 8y ago
Close-held profitable companies make their shares liquid by buying them back or by distributing dividends (as "profit sharing"). Remember: to a first approximation virtually all startup equity from all startups is illiquid.
- mcny 8y ago
  How do stock buybacks work (especially in a private company)? Do I as a shareholder access to all the information that the company does? Not trying to sound smart but wouldn't a market with only one buyer mean they will pay the least possible amount? I'm not trying to trash talk buffer. Just wanted to see if there's another angle to this.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    You should talk to someone who works at Bloomberg. Bloomberg is a gigantic private tech company with an internal exchange where vested equity can be bought and sold among employees and the company.
  - icelancer 8y ago
    One way it can be done: We issue equity internally, not options. We hold right of first refusal and have independent appraisals of value of the business done, so when you leave, we have the right to purchase the equity back at the last appraised value of the company. Additionally, we also pay dividends (impacted by equity) and profit sharing (not impacted by equity but rather a percentage of salary) to our employees. These things are what "lifestyle businesses" do, or what basically everyone outside of SV and indoctrinated MBA programs call... businesses.
- icelancer 8y ago
  >> Close-held profitable companies make their shares liquid by buying them back or by distributing dividends (as "profit sharing"). Yes, this is exactly what we do with our equity and our employees. It is ridiculous around Hacker News that this idea has been completely lost and almost everyone focuses on RSUs and unicorn valuations and longshots, rather than simply... I don't know, making a business that very calmly makes a few million dollars per year with double digit growth rather than insanity.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    It’s as if the idea of working for a company that’s profitable, pays market rates, and may pay a bonus to it’s employees out of its profits is blasphemous....
puranjay 8y ago
Buffer's current salaries: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l3bXAv8JE5RB9siMq36-Ogngks2MT6yQ5gt8YXhUyAg/edit#gid=2089488141 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l3bXAv8JE5RB9siMq36-... Personally, I think the salaries are more than reasonable. A senior engineer with a $175k compensation seems fair enough.

by sushid 8y ago

tptacek 8y ago

Close-held profitable companies make their shares liquid by buying them back or by distributing dividends (as "profit sharing"). Remember: to a first approximation virtually all startup equity from all startups is illiquid.

mcny 8y ago
How do stock buybacks work (especially in a private company)? Do I as a shareholder access to all the information that the company does? Not trying to sound smart but wouldn't a market with only one buyer mean they will pay the least possible amount? I'm not trying to trash talk buffer. Just wanted to see if there's another angle to this.
- tptacek 8y ago
  You should talk to someone who works at Bloomberg. Bloomberg is a gigantic private tech company with an internal exchange where vested equity can be bought and sold among employees and the company.
- icelancer 8y ago
  One way it can be done: We issue equity internally, not options. We hold right of first refusal and have independent appraisals of value of the business done, so when you leave, we have the right to purchase the equity back at the last appraised value of the company. Additionally, we also pay dividends (impacted by equity) and profit sharing (not impacted by equity but rather a percentage of salary) to our employees. These things are what "lifestyle businesses" do, or what basically everyone outside of SV and indoctrinated MBA programs call... businesses.
icelancer 8y ago
>> Close-held profitable companies make their shares liquid by buying them back or by distributing dividends (as "profit sharing"). Yes, this is exactly what we do with our equity and our employees. It is ridiculous around Hacker News that this idea has been completely lost and almost everyone focuses on RSUs and unicorn valuations and longshots, rather than simply... I don't know, making a business that very calmly makes a few million dollars per year with double digit growth rather than insanity.
- scarface74 8y ago
  It’s as if the idea of working for a company that’s profitable, pays market rates, and may pay a bonus to it’s employees out of its profits is blasphemous....

puranjay 8y ago

Buffer's current salaries: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l3bXAv8JE5RB9siMq36-Ogngks2MT6yQ5gt8YXhUyAg/edit#gid=2089488141 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l3bXAv8JE5RB9siMq36-... Personally, I think the salaries are more than reasonable. A senior engineer with a $175k compensation seems fair enough.