6 ms·

> I've never seen any of these ideas openly expressed in the workplace, or for that matter, anywhere. Animus against minorities is real. It's not made up. Just

> I've never seen any of these ideas openly expressed in the workplace, or for that matter, anywhere. Animus against minorities is real. It's not made up. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't real. Is this animus experienced by every member of every minority for every waking moment? No, that was a bit of an exaggeration, sure. But the animus is definitely not zero, like you suggest. You might benefit from educating yourself about feminism, race relations, and gay rights.

philwelch 8y ago
I’m not saying that animus doesn’t exist. Overt animus shouldn’t be tolerated in the workplace and deserves social condemnation, but the existence of animus doesn’t automatically bless or justify any and every political ideology that markets itself as “anti-Xist”. I have personally experienced animus based on my sex, race, and sexuality before, but I don’t want to be in a politicized workplace just because the governing ideology is supposedly for my benefit.
- mike10010100 8y ago
  > the existence of animus doesn’t automatically bless or justify any and every political ideology that markets itself as “anti-Xist”. I'm confused. How does saying "LGBTQ people deserve respect just like everyone else" somehow bless or justify another political ideology?
- methodover 8y ago
  > I don’t want to be in a politicized workplace just because the governing ideology is supposedly for my benefit. Workplaces need to say openly and often that, for every minority that's traditionally experienced discrimination in this country, "<minority> are equal and will always be treated with dignity, will be afforded the same benefits, and animus against <minority> will never be tolerated." If this count as "politicizing" the workplace, then, well, I'd say politicize away.
  - philwelch 8y ago
    I'm not arguing in favor of racial discrimination, so I'm not sure what straw man you think you're arguing against. I am noticing an implication on your part that animus against white people, or animus against men, is acceptable and welcome in the workplace. That's definitely a politicization I'm uncomfortable with.
    - methodover 8y ago
      > I'm not arguing in favor of racial discrimination, so I'm not sure what straw man you think you're arguing against. Never said that you were. > I am noticing an implication on your part that animus against white people, or animus against men, is acceptable and welcome in the workplace. Sorry what? You read in something that wasn’t there. Perhaps you ought to read a bit more carefully.
      - philwelch 8y ago
        > Sorry what? You read in something that wasn’t there. So why specify minorities and women?
        methodover 8y ago
        Oh, I see. You think that when I said that companies need to say openly and explicitly that they're cool with minorities, that this was a complete description of everything the company should do and say about the issue of unjust discrimination. Of course, I didn't say that. You read that in. It wasn't a complete description, just something I thought companies should also be doing. But that's fine, let me be clear now: In addition to minority outreach and accommodation, there ought to exist a clear anti-discrimination policy saying that no one should be discriminated against for their race or gender. There. All better?
        philwelch 8y ago
        > In addition to minority outreach and accommodation, there ought to exist a clear anti-discrimination policy saying that no one should be discriminated against for their race or gender. And my contention is that “no one should be discriminated against for their race and gender” is both necessary and sufficient. No need to give special treatment or attention to supposed “minorities” (note that women are in fact a majority).

philwelch 8y ago

I’m not saying that animus doesn’t exist. Overt animus shouldn’t be tolerated in the workplace and deserves social condemnation, but the existence of animus doesn’t automatically bless or justify any and every political ideology that markets itself as “anti-Xist”. I have personally experienced animus based on my sex, race, and sexuality before, but I don’t want to be in a politicized workplace just because the governing ideology is supposedly for my benefit.

mike10010100 8y ago
> the existence of animus doesn’t automatically bless or justify any and every political ideology that markets itself as “anti-Xist”. I'm confused. How does saying "LGBTQ people deserve respect just like everyone else" somehow bless or justify another political ideology?
methodover 8y ago
> I don’t want to be in a politicized workplace just because the governing ideology is supposedly for my benefit. Workplaces need to say openly and often that, for every minority that's traditionally experienced discrimination in this country, "<minority> are equal and will always be treated with dignity, will be afforded the same benefits, and animus against <minority> will never be tolerated." If this count as "politicizing" the workplace, then, well, I'd say politicize away.
- philwelch 8y ago
  I'm not arguing in favor of racial discrimination, so I'm not sure what straw man you think you're arguing against. I am noticing an implication on your part that animus against white people, or animus against men, is acceptable and welcome in the workplace. That's definitely a politicization I'm uncomfortable with.
  - methodover 8y ago
    > I'm not arguing in favor of racial discrimination, so I'm not sure what straw man you think you're arguing against. Never said that you were. > I am noticing an implication on your part that animus against white people, or animus against men, is acceptable and welcome in the workplace. Sorry what? You read in something that wasn’t there. Perhaps you ought to read a bit more carefully.
    - philwelch 8y ago
      > Sorry what? You read in something that wasn’t there. So why specify minorities and women?
      - methodover 8y ago
        Oh, I see. You think that when I said that companies need to say openly and explicitly that they're cool with minorities, that this was a complete description of everything the company should do and say about the issue of unjust discrimination. Of course, I didn't say that. You read that in. It wasn't a complete description, just something I thought companies should also be doing. But that's fine, let me be clear now: In addition to minority outreach and accommodation, there ought to exist a clear anti-discrimination policy saying that no one should be discriminated against for their race or gender. There. All better?
        philwelch 8y ago
        > In addition to minority outreach and accommodation, there ought to exist a clear anti-discrimination policy saying that no one should be discriminated against for their race or gender. And my contention is that “no one should be discriminated against for their race and gender” is both necessary and sufficient. No need to give special treatment or attention to supposed “minorities” (note that women are in fact a majority).