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That's the love hate relationship with Japan. When I visited there the first time I thought wow everyone is so friendly and the customer service is great! But

That's the love hate relationship with Japan. When I visited there the first time I thought wow everyone is so friendly and the customer service is great! But the more I visited and spoke with my friends who live there, realize that a lot of it is just to put up a face because that is what society there requires them to do. On a personal level it is quite sad in a way, but I also wish the customer service would be like that everywhere else in the world.

twblalock 8y ago
I dont see why it’s sad. They figured out that being nice to people, even when they don’t feel like being nice, makes society run better.
- Nadya 8y ago
  It's sad on an individual level - and I'm sure it contributes to Japan's high suicide rate and people who choose to withdraw from society [0]. Many cultures have a similar concept of "putting your personal feelings aside" but to varying degrees. In the US you put on a "professional persona" and may set your personal feelings aside while at work. But if you're at a job where your personal and professional personas are at ends with one another - you're going to be very unhappy. If your personal and public personas are at ends with one another, in a society where you're almost always required to put on your "public persona", you're going to be unhappy all the time. You can choose to withdraw from society so you no longer need to fake a public persona - but even that is very difficult and can make people unhappy (using the old "we're meant to be social animals" excuse). I think the culture works for people who's personal and public personas are mostly in agreement with one another and people who have made peace with setting their own selves aside for "the greater good" (if "societal harmony" is an acceptable "greater good", which I personally feel it is). All in my own opinion of course. I don't have data on hand to support any of my claims. :) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
  - hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
    Regarding suicide, I blame relatively poor mental healthcare, rigid societal expectations of people's lives (family & career track), and a (supposed) history of suicide as a solution. Or maybe in the West, with cultural roots in Christianity, which strongly discourages suicide, we might just be benefiting from more social taboo around it.
    - Nadya 8y ago
      Oh, I'm not saying it's the "only" reason - but a contributing factor. Constant high expectations, the poor work/life balance, and that losing your job after you're 30 basically means you're now considered unemployable doesn't help either.
  - komali2 8y ago
    Adding to the other comment on suicide, I point one big fat finger at dangerous work hours, from age 5 on. Suicide becomes a pretty attractive option when your brain isn't working from lack of sleep, and all you're looking forward to is a lifetime of 80-100 hour work weeks.
zo1 8y ago
That is what society requires us to do. It's very seldom that you can say and act the way you really feel. I'd argue that every culture/society at the moment has this and requires this of the members, to various degrees and in different manners. It just sounds like it's a whole lot more pronounced/obvious in Japan? Not that I mind, they're a miracle of a country, based on what they appear to have accomplished in the last half-century or so. Compare that to most other war-torn places or places that have struggled in the past, and maybe you could posit that there is something intrinsically good/effective about their culture. And this particular facet might just be that thing.
hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
Even if it's faked, it still has a net positive effect.
merpnderp 8y ago
This is called being professionally courteous. There is no implication of heart felt warmth, simply that someone is giving their job their best effort. It's while I'll never leave my US state where courtesy is built into the local culture even when you're having a bad day. I'd rather be surrounded by people at a minimum respecting the idea we're all stuck here together than a bunch of grouses letting everyone know how unhappy they are, thus making everyone share their misery.

twblalock 8y ago

I dont see why it’s sad. They figured out that being nice to people, even when they don’t feel like being nice, makes society run better.

Nadya 8y ago
It's sad on an individual level - and I'm sure it contributes to Japan's high suicide rate and people who choose to withdraw from society [0]. Many cultures have a similar concept of "putting your personal feelings aside" but to varying degrees. In the US you put on a "professional persona" and may set your personal feelings aside while at work. But if you're at a job where your personal and professional personas are at ends with one another - you're going to be very unhappy. If your personal and public personas are at ends with one another, in a society where you're almost always required to put on your "public persona", you're going to be unhappy all the time. You can choose to withdraw from society so you no longer need to fake a public persona - but even that is very difficult and can make people unhappy (using the old "we're meant to be social animals" excuse). I think the culture works for people who's personal and public personas are mostly in agreement with one another and people who have made peace with setting their own selves aside for "the greater good" (if "societal harmony" is an acceptable "greater good", which I personally feel it is). All in my own opinion of course. I don't have data on hand to support any of my claims. :) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
- hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
  Regarding suicide, I blame relatively poor mental healthcare, rigid societal expectations of people's lives (family & career track), and a (supposed) history of suicide as a solution. Or maybe in the West, with cultural roots in Christianity, which strongly discourages suicide, we might just be benefiting from more social taboo around it.
  - Nadya 8y ago
    Oh, I'm not saying it's the "only" reason - but a contributing factor. Constant high expectations, the poor work/life balance, and that losing your job after you're 30 basically means you're now considered unemployable doesn't help either.
- komali2 8y ago
  Adding to the other comment on suicide, I point one big fat finger at dangerous work hours, from age 5 on. Suicide becomes a pretty attractive option when your brain isn't working from lack of sleep, and all you're looking forward to is a lifetime of 80-100 hour work weeks.

zo1 8y ago

That is what society requires us to do. It's very seldom that you can say and act the way you really feel. I'd argue that every culture/society at the moment has this and requires this of the members, to various degrees and in different manners. It just sounds like it's a whole lot more pronounced/obvious in Japan? Not that I mind, they're a miracle of a country, based on what they appear to have accomplished in the last half-century or so. Compare that to most other war-torn places or places that have struggled in the past, and maybe you could posit that there is something intrinsically good/effective about their culture. And this particular facet might just be that thing.

hfdgiutdryg 8y ago

Even if it's faked, it still has a net positive effect.

merpnderp 8y ago

This is called being professionally courteous. There is no implication of heart felt warmth, simply that someone is giving their job their best effort. It's while I'll never leave my US state where courtesy is built into the local culture even when you're having a bad day. I'd rather be surrounded by people at a minimum respecting the idea we're all stuck here together than a bunch of grouses letting everyone know how unhappy they are, thus making everyone share their misery.