5 ms·

Something about this makes my skin crawl; conflating blossoming sentience with soulless machines. Children are banal and miraculous at the same time. The defaul

Something about this makes my skin crawl; conflating blossoming sentience with soulless machines. Children are banal and miraculous at the same time. The default human state was to create tiny humans without end until the advent of birth control 100(?) years ago. One thing that's remarkable to me was how divorced I came from children as an adult. I was 40 when we had our first and although I'd been around neices and nephews years earlier, I'd forgotten so much. After having a second, another remarkable thing is how different they are. The younger one does and says things the older one never would have. Children aren't for everyone, and not everyone wants or can have them. But there is something distinctive they add to life.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
> One thing that's remarkable to me was how divorced I came from children as an adult. My wife and I are in our early 30's and we're struggling with the thought of children because of this - they're utterly alien to us. I feel on an intellectual level that I think I'd like to have children and like to be a father, but with the exception of one friend (who because they have kids we've largely lost contact with), we don't really have any peers that have children, so we don't ever interact with them, and it's all terribly abstract to us.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  This seems like one of those things where no matter how prepared you think you are it'll be nothing like what you expect.
  - castlecrasher2 8y ago
    My experience has been 1) don't think about it too much beforehand and 2) if you have empathy to see situations from their perspective you'll be able to look up and learn what you need.
- alexpotato 8y ago
  I had my first (of two) kid when I was 35 and a couple things helped a lot: - I was one of the older cousins on both sides of big families so I got to see a lot of little kids running around. - I read this amazing post from Jeff Atwood: https://blog.codinghorror.com/on-parenthood/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/on-parenthood/ - I watched this talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/rufus_griscom_alisa_volkman_let_s_talk_parenting_taboos?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/rufus_griscom_alisa_volkman_let_s_... - I read a good quote that went something like this: "I asked my dad if I was ready for kids and he said 'If you are worried having kids will mess up your life, then you're not ready because you are still thinking about yourself. If you are worried that you might mess up THEIR life, then you are probably ready because it means you are already thinking about them.' " Children definitely change your life and are a lot of work. That being said, the first time they smile at you or call you "Dada" or "Mama" it feels like you won the emotional lottery. Then each milestone big or small just keeps adding to that feeling.
- fosco 8y ago
  I was in similar boat. I was not really around kids most of my life and making the jump was pretty difficult including the enormous new responsibility. read a number of books mostly full of things that are common sense just worded differently. the two most helpful things in hindsight so far (only 11 months in :-)) were the following a book around sleep [0] which is fairly short but can be shortened to a single excel spread sheet (which my wife and I did). the books seemed useless until we met others who had major challenges getting their child to sleep through the night, either we were super lucky or this book was amazing. ask me in a year after our second and I'll let you know if it was luck or not. and then being told that once the kid comes out thousands of years of evolution magically hit you in the back of the head. this surprisingly was completely true (although I still do not know how) lastly, none of my friends that live close have kids yet and some relationships have gotten weaker while others stronger. I think some of my friends are keeping distance for 'reasons' which is frustrating because losing touch with a good friend was not an expected result after having a kid. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Hours-Sleep-Weeks-Step/dp/0525949593 https://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Hours-Sleep-Weeks-Step/dp/0525...
  - edraferi 8y ago
    Any chance you can share that spreadsheet?
    - fosco 8y ago
      how can I contact you? (disclosure without reading the book it may not make immediate sense)
  - pisteoff 8y ago
    > being told that once the kid comes out thousands of years of evolution magically hit you in the back of the head This is true, there are studies out there that have shown men go through physiological changes in the brain, similar to what happens to women, both during their partners pregnancy and after the child is born. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2007/06/stretch_marks_for_dads.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  We have 3 kids and will probably have a go at a 4th next year sometime. Bringing new children into this world is probably the hardest thing you'll ever do. There's no way to be prepared. You just jump into the fire and wing it until you start figuring things out. And it's utterly exhausting for a couple of years. But I can tell you that being a parent is the most meaningful part of my life. By a long shot. So I would say this: if you want to live life on easy mode and enjoy all the little pleasures that modern life has to offer, then don't have kids. I say that without judgement; your life is yours to live as you see fit. But if you want meaning, if you want to struggle for something more important than yourself, and if you want to leave something enduring behind when you depart from this world, then have some kids.
  - voicedYoda 8y ago
    Beautifully stated. We've had 6 children. It's hectic, loud, chaotic, frenetic, and exhausting. But I'm having the time of my life and super happy to have such a wonderful cacophony trailing around all the time. Children are special, but not for everyone.
    - stephenhuey 8y ago
      It's amazing how much going to work feels like play time to me now that I've had children! You can generally take a break, go to the bathroom, etc whenever you feel like it, but depending on the age of the child(ren) at home, such activities often seem like luxuries to squeeze in whenever you finally have a moment to do so. I've generally felt like the most difficult challenges at work are easier than some of the problems when caring for kids, but the joys of children far outshine the best jobs I've ever had.
  - kentosi 8y ago
    > But if you want meaning, ..., then have some kids. Or anything else that involves devoting time other beings: homeless feeding drives, mentoring disadvantaged people about programming, working in an elderly home, etc. The feeling of being part of something broader doesn't only come from having children sorry.
dqpb 8y ago
> conflating blossoming sentience with soulless machines What is a soul?
- creep 8y ago
  That thing we possess that we can't explain but we all feel implicitly or explicitly which seems to give our existence meaning. That thing that, despite all your rationalizations, allows you to feel you are a distinct existence with an individuality that extends beyond thoughts, personality, and behavior.
  - 0x8BADF00D 8y ago
    Which can all be explained by the material that your brain is composed of. A soul is an outdated concept with religious significance and meaning. When we discover the mechanism behind consciousness, which is an inevitability, it will seem a lot less strange and alien, much like when Galileo peered through his telescope to see the stars and planets.
    - deathanatos 8y ago
      When we discovered galaxies — and to me, that seems like a thing we've always had — some scientists balked at it; for there to be another galaxy — multiple galaxies in the universe would imply sizes and scales that were absolutely ridiculous! > Also used to back up his claims [that the idea of galaxies was wrong] was the observation of a nova in the Andromeda "nebula" that had briefly outshone the entire nebula, constituting a seemingly impossible output of energy were Andromeda in fact a separate galaxy. But of course, the nova was real, the "seemingly impossible" energy output was also real. The Great Debate[1] happened, and eventually those unacceptably ridiculous distances became common knowledge. The universe occasionally catches us off guard. I think most of us want to know why, if we're just, as you imply, a collection of chemical reactions, why are we "here", in the sense of having what we call a consciousness? It may very well be that there will come an explanation some day, rooted in quantum physics or some unnamed, yet-dreamed-up branch of science, but it hasn't yet, and that forthcoming explanation could very well discover that there is a fundamental difference between man and machine, just as it could very well discover there isn't. We won't know until someone does the work of coming up with testable hypotheses, and probably a better definition of "consciousness". [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Debate_(astronomy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Debate_(astronomy)

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago

> One thing that's remarkable to me was how divorced I came from children as an adult. My wife and I are in our early 30's and we're struggling with the thought of children because of this - they're utterly alien to us. I feel on an intellectual level that I think I'd like to have children and like to be a father, but with the exception of one friend (who because they have kids we've largely lost contact with), we don't really have any peers that have children, so we don't ever interact with them, and it's all terribly abstract to us.

emodendroket 8y ago
This seems like one of those things where no matter how prepared you think you are it'll be nothing like what you expect.
- castlecrasher2 8y ago
  My experience has been 1) don't think about it too much beforehand and 2) if you have empathy to see situations from their perspective you'll be able to look up and learn what you need.
alexpotato 8y ago
I had my first (of two) kid when I was 35 and a couple things helped a lot: - I was one of the older cousins on both sides of big families so I got to see a lot of little kids running around. - I read this amazing post from Jeff Atwood: https://blog.codinghorror.com/on-parenthood/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/on-parenthood/ - I watched this talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/rufus_griscom_alisa_volkman_let_s_talk_parenting_taboos?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/rufus_griscom_alisa_volkman_let_s_... - I read a good quote that went something like this: "I asked my dad if I was ready for kids and he said 'If you are worried having kids will mess up your life, then you're not ready because you are still thinking about yourself. If you are worried that you might mess up THEIR life, then you are probably ready because it means you are already thinking about them.' " Children definitely change your life and are a lot of work. That being said, the first time they smile at you or call you "Dada" or "Mama" it feels like you won the emotional lottery. Then each milestone big or small just keeps adding to that feeling.
fosco 8y ago
I was in similar boat. I was not really around kids most of my life and making the jump was pretty difficult including the enormous new responsibility. read a number of books mostly full of things that are common sense just worded differently. the two most helpful things in hindsight so far (only 11 months in :-)) were the following a book around sleep [0] which is fairly short but can be shortened to a single excel spread sheet (which my wife and I did). the books seemed useless until we met others who had major challenges getting their child to sleep through the night, either we were super lucky or this book was amazing. ask me in a year after our second and I'll let you know if it was luck or not. and then being told that once the kid comes out thousands of years of evolution magically hit you in the back of the head. this surprisingly was completely true (although I still do not know how) lastly, none of my friends that live close have kids yet and some relationships have gotten weaker while others stronger. I think some of my friends are keeping distance for 'reasons' which is frustrating because losing touch with a good friend was not an expected result after having a kid. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Hours-Sleep-Weeks-Step/dp/0525949593 https://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Hours-Sleep-Weeks-Step/dp/0525...
- edraferi 8y ago
  Any chance you can share that spreadsheet?
  - fosco 8y ago
    how can I contact you? (disclosure without reading the book it may not make immediate sense)
- pisteoff 8y ago
  > being told that once the kid comes out thousands of years of evolution magically hit you in the back of the head This is true, there are studies out there that have shown men go through physiological changes in the brain, similar to what happens to women, both during their partners pregnancy and after the child is born. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2007/06/stretch_marks_for_dads.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...
toasterlovin 8y ago
We have 3 kids and will probably have a go at a 4th next year sometime. Bringing new children into this world is probably the hardest thing you'll ever do. There's no way to be prepared. You just jump into the fire and wing it until you start figuring things out. And it's utterly exhausting for a couple of years. But I can tell you that being a parent is the most meaningful part of my life. By a long shot. So I would say this: if you want to live life on easy mode and enjoy all the little pleasures that modern life has to offer, then don't have kids. I say that without judgement; your life is yours to live as you see fit. But if you want meaning, if you want to struggle for something more important than yourself, and if you want to leave something enduring behind when you depart from this world, then have some kids.
- voicedYoda 8y ago
  Beautifully stated. We've had 6 children. It's hectic, loud, chaotic, frenetic, and exhausting. But I'm having the time of my life and super happy to have such a wonderful cacophony trailing around all the time. Children are special, but not for everyone.
  - stephenhuey 8y ago
    It's amazing how much going to work feels like play time to me now that I've had children! You can generally take a break, go to the bathroom, etc whenever you feel like it, but depending on the age of the child(ren) at home, such activities often seem like luxuries to squeeze in whenever you finally have a moment to do so. I've generally felt like the most difficult challenges at work are easier than some of the problems when caring for kids, but the joys of children far outshine the best jobs I've ever had.
- kentosi 8y ago
  > But if you want meaning, ..., then have some kids. Or anything else that involves devoting time other beings: homeless feeding drives, mentoring disadvantaged people about programming, working in an elderly home, etc. The feeling of being part of something broader doesn't only come from having children sorry.

dqpb 8y ago

> conflating blossoming sentience with soulless machines What is a soul?

creep 8y ago
That thing we possess that we can't explain but we all feel implicitly or explicitly which seems to give our existence meaning. That thing that, despite all your rationalizations, allows you to feel you are a distinct existence with an individuality that extends beyond thoughts, personality, and behavior.
- 0x8BADF00D 8y ago
  Which can all be explained by the material that your brain is composed of. A soul is an outdated concept with religious significance and meaning. When we discover the mechanism behind consciousness, which is an inevitability, it will seem a lot less strange and alien, much like when Galileo peered through his telescope to see the stars and planets.
  - deathanatos 8y ago
    When we discovered galaxies — and to me, that seems like a thing we've always had — some scientists balked at it; for there to be another galaxy — multiple galaxies in the universe would imply sizes and scales that were absolutely ridiculous! > Also used to back up his claims [that the idea of galaxies was wrong] was the observation of a nova in the Andromeda "nebula" that had briefly outshone the entire nebula, constituting a seemingly impossible output of energy were Andromeda in fact a separate galaxy. But of course, the nova was real, the "seemingly impossible" energy output was also real. The Great Debate[1] happened, and eventually those unacceptably ridiculous distances became common knowledge. The universe occasionally catches us off guard. I think most of us want to know why, if we're just, as you imply, a collection of chemical reactions, why are we "here", in the sense of having what we call a consciousness? It may very well be that there will come an explanation some day, rooted in quantum physics or some unnamed, yet-dreamed-up branch of science, but it hasn't yet, and that forthcoming explanation could very well discover that there is a fundamental difference between man and machine, just as it could very well discover there isn't. We won't know until someone does the work of coming up with testable hypotheses, and probably a better definition of "consciousness". [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Debate_(astronomy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Debate_(astronomy)