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This sort of thing seems really sad to me, From the site linked in the article, "Proper Etiquette for Quitting Your Job in Japan": Show your appreciation to e

This sort of thing seems really sad to me, From the site linked in the article, "Proper Etiquette for Quitting Your Job in Japan": Show your appreciation to every member of the company, or at least those you have been working with directly. Sweets, small gifts such as mugs, tea sets, a thank-you card or other similar items will be appreciated by everyone. Prepare those for your last day on the job. Usually, Japanese companies will see you off by hosting a small party and presenting you with a flower bouquet, so having something to give in return always makes a good impression. You may also be asked to give a speech, so prepare a few farewell words just in case—but keep it short and sweet. Skipping these niceties in order to save embarrassment makes the world a little colder.

ptero 8y ago
When those niceties are not a free choice, but "strongly encouraged" by management, they quickly stop being nice. For a person who spent a lifetime at the firm (which used to be pretty common in Japan) and is retiring from work altogether, they may be a warm touch. For someone who hates the job and wants to leave, maybe not so much. Not burning bridges is always a good idea, but I can understand avoiding long, scripted performances in this case.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  I mean, Japanese society is like this everywhere and there are tons of services set up to make it easy for you. For instance, I stayed at a hotel near Narita airport, and they had a book organized by continent where you could order souvenirs from whatever place you had just been to send to friends and family (in case you forgot or didn't bother to pick them up while you were there).
- Nadya 8y ago
  >When those niceties are not a free choice, but "strongly encouraged" by management, they quickly stop being nice. It isn't about being nice though - it's about giving the appearance of nice. If everyone is being nice and courteous to one another for the sake of group harmony, then I think it is good. I can understand why many people would be irritated by it, but then this kind of culture isn't for them. I visit Japan often and I'm aware of just how much of the culture is a "bullshit front". That's not surprising when an important concept is around being two-faced[0]. If this type of culture bothers you - it's a terrible country to live in. But the constant "faking for group harmony" leads to actual group harmony as far as I can tell. It's enjoyable being in a culture where people try to support one another than one that's an individualistic - "everyone fend for themselves" - culture like the U.S.A. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae
  - asnyder 8y ago
    The "everyone fend for themselves" trope of American in my opinion is only perceived this way due to a concerted effort by Libertarians and Conservatives to push this thinking, and during periods where those views have power (such as now) it becomes even more engrained that this is "America" and further fuels efforts to remove those social nets and other social connectivity that was promoted and emphasized during periods of increased interconnectivity (ex. Obama - Public Service, Healthcare, Living Wages, Consumer Protection, Environment, Battery and Clean Energy foundations, Net neutrality, Auto-rescue, open government data, LGBTQ). As long as we remember and push against this false "fend for themselves", it need not become America.
  - antoniuschan99 8y ago
    That's the love hate relationship with Japan. When I visited there the first time I thought wow everyone is so friendly and the customer service is great! But the more I visited and spoke with my friends who live there, realize that a lot of it is just to put up a face because that is what society there requires them to do. On a personal level it is quite sad in a way, but I also wish the customer service would be like that everywhere else in the world.
    - twblalock 8y ago
      I dont see why it’s sad. They figured out that being nice to people, even when they don’t feel like being nice, makes society run better.
      - Nadya 8y ago
        It's sad on an individual level - and I'm sure it contributes to Japan's high suicide rate and people who choose to withdraw from society [0]. Many cultures have a similar concept of "putting your personal feelings aside" but to varying degrees. In the US you put on a "professional persona" and may set your personal feelings aside while at work. But if you're at a job where your personal and professional personas are at ends with one another - you're going to be very unhappy. If your personal and public personas are at ends with one another, in a society where you're almost always required to put on your "public persona", you're going to be unhappy all the time. You can choose to withdraw from society so you no longer need to fake a public persona - but even that is very difficult and can make people unhappy (using the old "we're meant to be social animals" excuse). I think the culture works for people who's personal and public personas are mostly in agreement with one another and people who have made peace with setting their own selves aside for "the greater good" (if "societal harmony" is an acceptable "greater good", which I personally feel it is). All in my own opinion of course. I don't have data on hand to support any of my claims. :) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
segmondy 8y ago
Your comment makes me sad, you like most people don't appreciate culture that you don't understand.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  He's praising the culture though?
HenryBemis 8y ago
I recently watched the movie "Oh Lucy" (with Shinobu Terajima, Josh Hartnett, Kaho Minami)[1] where we (outsiders) can see the traditional mentality/way of thinking of a working environment in Japan. I do understand that this is a movie, so some things are softened/exagerated, and reading the article I immediately understood that the "normality" is and how the movie represented this elegantly. [1]: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6343058 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6343058
ASalazarMX 8y ago
I'd dread leaving if this was required to leave where I work. I've went to a restaurant in a group to say goodbye to someone, but this is too much.

ptero 8y ago

When those niceties are not a free choice, but "strongly encouraged" by management, they quickly stop being nice. For a person who spent a lifetime at the firm (which used to be pretty common in Japan) and is retiring from work altogether, they may be a warm touch. For someone who hates the job and wants to leave, maybe not so much. Not burning bridges is always a good idea, but I can understand avoiding long, scripted performances in this case.

emodendroket 8y ago
I mean, Japanese society is like this everywhere and there are tons of services set up to make it easy for you. For instance, I stayed at a hotel near Narita airport, and they had a book organized by continent where you could order souvenirs from whatever place you had just been to send to friends and family (in case you forgot or didn't bother to pick them up while you were there).
Nadya 8y ago
>When those niceties are not a free choice, but "strongly encouraged" by management, they quickly stop being nice. It isn't about being nice though - it's about giving the appearance of nice. If everyone is being nice and courteous to one another for the sake of group harmony, then I think it is good. I can understand why many people would be irritated by it, but then this kind of culture isn't for them. I visit Japan often and I'm aware of just how much of the culture is a "bullshit front". That's not surprising when an important concept is around being two-faced[0]. If this type of culture bothers you - it's a terrible country to live in. But the constant "faking for group harmony" leads to actual group harmony as far as I can tell. It's enjoyable being in a culture where people try to support one another than one that's an individualistic - "everyone fend for themselves" - culture like the U.S.A. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae
- asnyder 8y ago
  The "everyone fend for themselves" trope of American in my opinion is only perceived this way due to a concerted effort by Libertarians and Conservatives to push this thinking, and during periods where those views have power (such as now) it becomes even more engrained that this is "America" and further fuels efforts to remove those social nets and other social connectivity that was promoted and emphasized during periods of increased interconnectivity (ex. Obama - Public Service, Healthcare, Living Wages, Consumer Protection, Environment, Battery and Clean Energy foundations, Net neutrality, Auto-rescue, open government data, LGBTQ). As long as we remember and push against this false "fend for themselves", it need not become America.
- antoniuschan99 8y ago
  That's the love hate relationship with Japan. When I visited there the first time I thought wow everyone is so friendly and the customer service is great! But the more I visited and spoke with my friends who live there, realize that a lot of it is just to put up a face because that is what society there requires them to do. On a personal level it is quite sad in a way, but I also wish the customer service would be like that everywhere else in the world.
  - twblalock 8y ago
    I dont see why it’s sad. They figured out that being nice to people, even when they don’t feel like being nice, makes society run better.
    - Nadya 8y ago
      It's sad on an individual level - and I'm sure it contributes to Japan's high suicide rate and people who choose to withdraw from society [0]. Many cultures have a similar concept of "putting your personal feelings aside" but to varying degrees. In the US you put on a "professional persona" and may set your personal feelings aside while at work. But if you're at a job where your personal and professional personas are at ends with one another - you're going to be very unhappy. If your personal and public personas are at ends with one another, in a society where you're almost always required to put on your "public persona", you're going to be unhappy all the time. You can choose to withdraw from society so you no longer need to fake a public persona - but even that is very difficult and can make people unhappy (using the old "we're meant to be social animals" excuse). I think the culture works for people who's personal and public personas are mostly in agreement with one another and people who have made peace with setting their own selves aside for "the greater good" (if "societal harmony" is an acceptable "greater good", which I personally feel it is). All in my own opinion of course. I don't have data on hand to support any of my claims. :) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

segmondy 8y ago

Your comment makes me sad, you like most people don't appreciate culture that you don't understand.

emodendroket 8y ago
He's praising the culture though?

HenryBemis 8y ago

I recently watched the movie "Oh Lucy" (with Shinobu Terajima, Josh Hartnett, Kaho Minami)[1] where we (outsiders) can see the traditional mentality/way of thinking of a working environment in Japan. I do understand that this is a movie, so some things are softened/exagerated, and reading the article I immediately understood that the "normality" is and how the movie represented this elegantly. [1]: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6343058 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6343058

ASalazarMX 8y ago

I'd dread leaving if this was required to leave where I work. I've went to a restaurant in a group to say goodbye to someone, but this is too much.