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Fun Fact: A lot of people, when discussing Free Speech, bring up Nazis and how some views should be banned. In fact, Weimar Germany, although much more liberal
by rsj_hn 8y ago
Fun Fact: A lot of people, when discussing Free Speech, bring up Nazis and how some views should be banned. In fact, Weimar Germany, although much more liberal than the republic under Bismarck, cracked down on hate speech and jailed many Nazis, which only led to them getting a more sympathetic hearing and a broader audience:
"Leading Nazis, including Joseph Goebbels, Theodor Fritsch, and Julius Streicher, were all prosecuted for anti-Semitic speech. And rather than deterring them, the many court cases served as effective pubic relations machinery for the Nazis, affording them a level of attention that they never would have received in a climate of a free and open debate.
In the decade from 1923 to 1933, the Nazi propaganda magazine Der Stürmer — of which Streicher was the executive publisher — was confiscated or had its editors taken to court no fewer than 36 times. The more charges Streicher faced, the more the admiration of his supporters grew. In fact, the courts became an important platform for Streicher’s campaign against the Jews."[1]
This pattern has been repeated in other countries as well. So, it's really a shame that people aren't looking back to history's lessons here. I understand that when you see something really offensive, your reaction is to ban it, but there are all sorts of unexpected things that happen when you do that, from the Barbara Streisand effect, to driving discussions underground, where they tend to become more extreme because they are only debated in an echo chamber with like minded individuals rather than brought out to the public square.
[1]https://www.cato.org/policy-report/mayjune-2015/war-free-expression https://www.cato.org/policy-report/mayjune-2015/war-free-exp...
I am obviously not talking about employer code of conduct. In my opinion, there should be no place for politics on the job site, but just be aware that you are not actually stomping out any offending beliefs by punishing those who express them -- at best you are driving those beliefs underground where they will go unchallenged, and at worst you are also creating a much wider audience of sympathetic ears, mostly drawn from a public who doesn't like to be told what to think.
- AmericanChopper 8y ago>at worst you are also creating a much wider audience of sympathetic ears, mostly drawn from a public who doesn't like to be told what to think. I very firmly believe that if it we're for the chorus of media outlets and public voices pushing the idea that anybody who didn't like Hillary, or who did like Trump, were all racist, sexist, deplorable... That Trump probably wouldn't have been elected.
- rsj_hn 8y agoI think that was part of it -- the "deplorables" line really hurt her. Hillary didn't have anywhere near the political talent that Bill had, where by "political talent" I mean being able to connect with people and bring you over to their side. I was stunned when she was nominated, because I couldn't imagine her winning a national election. I think Al Gore had similar issues vis-a-vis Bush. He was just robotic, condescending in his stump speeches and debates. He was the exact wrong person to nominate to run against Bush, just in terms of his public persona. The TV age really changed politics, and treating people with respect and not talking down to them matters. I think this rules out a lot of people who would otherwise make capable administrators, but that's how it is. And all of these people may be great one on one, but stick them in front of a camera, and man, they are cringe-worthy. While I'm at it, Elizabeth Warren has the same problem. She comes off as a schoolmarm, constantly talking down to people. Please don't nominate her, Democrats, don't keep doing this. It would be nice to bring two party rule back to this country, so get someone who can win -- someone in the Bill Clinton, Barack Obama mold, who is able to be passionate about something while at the same time doesn't sound like they are scolding you for having the wrong views.
- AmericanChopper 8y agoWell said. >I was stunned when she was nominated, because I couldn't imagine her winning a national election. I think the way she got herself nominated didn’t do her any favors either. It was quite transparently corrupt and must’ve flipped a good amount of Bernie supporters.