5 ms·

I don't know a good resource but I think it largely comes down to how you see someone who commits a crime or breaks a rule. People on the right tend to see eve

I don't know a good resource but I think it largely comes down to how you see someone who commits a crime or breaks a rule. People on the right tend to see everyone as capable of following all the rules. To break them is a clear choice which has consequences. People who break the law or rules suffer from a character flaw. If a lot of people are breaking the law or a rule then there is some moral breakdown in society or a failure to enforce the law. People on the left tend to see breaking the law or rules as a natural consequence of ones needs. If a lot of people are breaking a law then there is something wrong v with that law or the systems around it. People on the right basically have faith in laws, law enforcement and are skeptical of the motives of law/rule breakers. People on the left basically have faith in people and their reasons for breaking laws/rules and the circumstances around their act. They are skeptical of law enforcement. Edit: I realize I failed to connect this to illegal immigration. So someone on the left will say, "this person crossed illegally or overstayed their visa for some good reason. So many people are doing so because the system or laws are cutting too strongly against human needs/nature. Whereas someone on the right will say. This person broke the immigration laws out due to a lack of character, ie. they didn't have the patience to wait or they have some I'll intent. Regardless, they've shown a lack of character, there should be consequences and we don't want flawed people here anyway. So in this regard is comes down to what you think law/rule breaking says about someone's integrity or nature.

hippich 8y ago
I think what you described are sides of authoritarianism and libertarianism, not right and left. From my observation, both left and right are trying to enforce something with laws, but things they want to enforce are different. These two spectrums are orthogonal imho (i.e. you can have authoritarian right and libertarian left)
- DubiousPusher 8y ago
  I'm a big fan of the political compass model. I think it does a great job of creating enough space to lay out most people's political values. But regarding immigration and law enforcement, at least right now, the right in America tend to be pretty authoritarian while the left tend to be fairly libertarian. Of course that flips when you jump to the issue of pursing white collar crimes and regulatory violations. BTW, in this context I'm using 'right' to mean the group of people that largely votes Republican and 'left' to mean the group of people that largely votes Democrat.
  - hippich 8y ago
    I can't see how the left being libertarian on immigration while at the same time voting for large social welfare programs can work. you can have only one: no borders or social welfare. You can't have both at the same time (until globalization will even out income in the whole world) Perhaps we could go 100% libertarian first (no borders, no taxes) and after a while go 100% social (not sure how globe-wide social welfare can work tho)
    - DubiousPusher 8y ago
      I'm not sure. That's a huge issue which I'm woefully under-qualified to have a strong opinion on. I do know that Switzerland has generous social programs for citizens but allows people to live and work there without full citizenship. Which is one partial solution. Though they now have the pretty ridiculous problem of having 3rd generation Swiss immigrants who aren't Swiss citizens. Problems of immigration and citizenship go all the way back to republican Rome. The answers are crappy and few epspecially with several global humanitarian crises underway.
DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
That's a great articulation of one way to view the issue, thanks! I'd love to hear from people across the political spectrum as to whether or not your model seems accurate w.r.t. their own personal views on the subject. I.e., not whether or not they think your model accurately describes the people with whom they disagree on this topic. Just whether or not they feel it accurately captures their own view.
- hokumguru 8y ago
  I personally find myself quite right-leaning in my beliefs and I find this explanation to be quite on point. I however might add, for specificity's sake, the ideas of optimism/cynicism on either side of the political spectrum - specifically, how we view the fundamental nature of humans. In my experience people on the right tend to be much more skeptical and cynical of human nature while people on the left tend to be more trusting of humans. We see these beliefs expressed in our political parties as well. Conservatives tend to believe more in personal freedoms as, according to their knowledge of human-nature, they cannot feasibly trust other people - most especially the federal government. In the same vein liberals tend to work more towards social programs and "the greater good" because their knowledge of human nature says that humans are fundamentally good and should deserve another chance. I believe the view of human nature to be the most fundamental reduction of modern politics - OP's interpretation of laws coincides with this.
- jymbo 8y ago
  Here's another view: A disturbing proportion of the left have been brainwashed into thinking that their president is a russian spy. Once you understand that, it starts to make more sense.

hippich 8y ago

I think what you described are sides of authoritarianism and libertarianism, not right and left. From my observation, both left and right are trying to enforce something with laws, but things they want to enforce are different. These two spectrums are orthogonal imho (i.e. you can have authoritarian right and libertarian left)

DubiousPusher 8y ago
I'm a big fan of the political compass model. I think it does a great job of creating enough space to lay out most people's political values. But regarding immigration and law enforcement, at least right now, the right in America tend to be pretty authoritarian while the left tend to be fairly libertarian. Of course that flips when you jump to the issue of pursing white collar crimes and regulatory violations. BTW, in this context I'm using 'right' to mean the group of people that largely votes Republican and 'left' to mean the group of people that largely votes Democrat.
- hippich 8y ago
  I can't see how the left being libertarian on immigration while at the same time voting for large social welfare programs can work. you can have only one: no borders or social welfare. You can't have both at the same time (until globalization will even out income in the whole world) Perhaps we could go 100% libertarian first (no borders, no taxes) and after a while go 100% social (not sure how globe-wide social welfare can work tho)
  - DubiousPusher 8y ago
    I'm not sure. That's a huge issue which I'm woefully under-qualified to have a strong opinion on. I do know that Switzerland has generous social programs for citizens but allows people to live and work there without full citizenship. Which is one partial solution. Though they now have the pretty ridiculous problem of having 3rd generation Swiss immigrants who aren't Swiss citizens. Problems of immigration and citizenship go all the way back to republican Rome. The answers are crappy and few epspecially with several global humanitarian crises underway.

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago

That's a great articulation of one way to view the issue, thanks! I'd love to hear from people across the political spectrum as to whether or not your model seems accurate w.r.t. their own personal views on the subject. I.e., not whether or not they think your model accurately describes the people with whom they disagree on this topic. Just whether or not they feel it accurately captures their own view.

hokumguru 8y ago
I personally find myself quite right-leaning in my beliefs and I find this explanation to be quite on point. I however might add, for specificity's sake, the ideas of optimism/cynicism on either side of the political spectrum - specifically, how we view the fundamental nature of humans. In my experience people on the right tend to be much more skeptical and cynical of human nature while people on the left tend to be more trusting of humans. We see these beliefs expressed in our political parties as well. Conservatives tend to believe more in personal freedoms as, according to their knowledge of human-nature, they cannot feasibly trust other people - most especially the federal government. In the same vein liberals tend to work more towards social programs and "the greater good" because their knowledge of human nature says that humans are fundamentally good and should deserve another chance. I believe the view of human nature to be the most fundamental reduction of modern politics - OP's interpretation of laws coincides with this.
jymbo 8y ago
Here's another view: A disturbing proportion of the left have been brainwashed into thinking that their president is a russian spy. Once you understand that, it starts to make more sense.