8 ms·

I think part of the bad rep MDMA gets as a theraputic drug comes from street-known MDMA not actually being pure MDMA. It’s often laced with ketamine or some oth

I think part of the bad rep MDMA gets as a theraputic drug comes from street-known MDMA not actually being pure MDMA. It’s often laced with ketamine or some other drugs that give different effects than what’s being used in this PTSD treatment.

nounaut 8y ago
It was sort of hailed as a possible antibiotics of the mind before the war on drugs started and basically all research was halted. I think it's likely that that's what caused the bad rep more so than how the dealers mixed it. All drugs that were used in a recreational way was deemed as bad.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  The prohibition of ecstasy makes me furious given the has caused how many millions to suffer needlessly for generations? And this in addition to the sheer obliviousness of starting the war on Drugs after Prohibition showed what happens when you try to do so.
- ssijak 8y ago
  Alcohol, cigarettes, sugary snacks...?
  - froogie 8y ago
    A weak point. Alcohol can not be taken away, it has been tried. Had we not had alcohol in the first place, we'd likely have other things a-ok'd, and alcohol would be treated by its merits compared to other recreational substances. By all reason it would be illegal far before many other substances. Personally I am conflicted: on one hand we can see that the more we let people to have certain drugs, the less functional they are as human beings. On the other hand, if above point was really important, it would make sense to try to let people have the least harmful of these substances, so that, on average, the damage caused by their consumption is lower. A growing part of me thinks that drug policies aren't as much about preventing harms as it seems to be about "playing games". We could do better all around the world. But things move slowly, so slowly. Stigmas hold, people fall to the soothing lull of prejudice and simplistic arguments. This is all just business as usual.
yashap 8y ago
Agreed! Been a long time since I experimented with drugs, but when I used to, pure MDMA was really great. Just puts you in a super positive frame of mind, and makes you feel incredibly close and connected to whoever you’re doing it with. Not surprised at all that there’s a lot of therapeutic potential there.
- simonsaidit 8y ago
  Yes but it’s also pretty common to get into this regularly and soon after what you get one evening you have to give back some weeks later unless you then take all sorts of other drugs to compensate for that. I’ve seen the therapeutic effects up close and they are powerful but they are sadly short lived and hard to manage.
  - meowface 8y ago
    All advice I've seen regarding the substance is to not take it more than once every 3 months. I think people just need to realize it really isn't a party drug you can take every or every other weekend. Not only will tolerance build very rapidly, but you're exposing your brain to excessive oxidative stress and overheating, and are likely causing serotonergic neurotoxicity (even if you take it with all the recommended supplements). It needs to be treated like a rare, therapeutic, and special vacation, not something you take whenever you want to have fun.
    - simonsaidit 8y ago
      yup. but young people in a culture where its quite common to do this every weekend are in a big risk not to follow that advice though.
  - yahyaheee 8y ago
    The MAPS studies tell a different story here, only a couple sessions and over a year later a large majority of the subjects were still symptom free or greatly reduced
    - 8y ago
toomanybeersies 8y ago
Generally it's laced with amphetamine/methamphetamine as they're cheaper (per dose), and these days it's often laced with other substituted amphetamines such as mephedrone or PMA, neither of which are substances people would otherwise take as they're nasty shit. Generally when you hear about people being hospitalised or dying after taking ecstasy, it's due to the other shit in the pills. MDMA is a relatively safe drug (although not without its risks, especially taken in a non-therapeutic setting).
- Fnoord 8y ago
  > and these days it's often laced with other substituted amphetamines such as mephedrone or PMA "Often"? Often where? I'd say no since we'd hear about accidents with ecstasy "often" as well. This happens rarely, still. EDIT: Found some data [1]: "Although more recent ED data are not publicly available, the number of reported poisonings involving “hallucinogenic amphetamines” (which are most commonly MDMA and MDMA-like drugs) rose from 2057 (including 3 deaths) in 2009 to 2514 (including 14 deaths) in 2013" "Ecstasy purity was low in the US in the mid-1990s3 and purity plummeted in Europe around 2009,11 but increased in 2010,8,11 while purity of powder and crystal ecstasy reportedly remained high in Europe (at 75–97%) in 2008–2013.11 However, the presence of synthetic cathinones (“bath salts”) and other novel psychoactive substances (NPS) increased within both pills and powders from 2008–2013.11 Spain in particular had a high prevalence of synthetic cathinones such as mephedrone and methylone detected in powder ecstasy.9 Despite extensive research in Europe, purity of ecstasy in the US over the last decade has not been formally researched." [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5578728/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5578728/
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    13 people in New Zealand were put in hospital this summer [1] by MDMA laced with N-Ethylpentylone. It was also discovered after pill testing at a festival in Australia. In January several people in Melbourne were hospitalised one weekend after taking laced MDMA. I couldn't say how often MDMA is laced, and in what quantities, but it's definitely out there. [1] https://www.vice.com/en_nz/article/8xdzpb/heres-what-was-in-the-bad-batch-of-mdma-that-put-13-kiwis-in-hospital https://www.vice.com/en_nz/article/8xdzpb/heres-what-was-in-...
simonsaidit 8y ago
Ecstasy != mdma. It’s pretty easy to spot clean mdma visually or tasting or you can just recrystalize it yourself. It’s imoossible to figure out what is in ecstasy.. and is always a combo of above drugs and more. Clean mdma is more common these days than ecstasy in most of Europe atleast.
- Nursie 8y ago
  This is not really true. Several things look quite a lot like MDMA, and one of the problems with Ecstasy tablets in Europe at the moment is that they contain too much MDMA for a single dose. Always test your drugs people, and start low.
  - simonsaidit 8y ago
    If you know this stuff you also know the taste and looks of the crystal and why eg it got the color it does. There is no easy way of knowing what is inside a tablet but the “pure” crystallized products are easy to recognize mdma especially. And it would have to be a damn big tablet to contain too much mdma... by bet is on what else is inside.
    - Nursie 8y ago
      > There is no easy way of knowing what is inside a tablet Chemical tests. > but the “pure” crystallized products are easy to recognize mdma especially Lots of the extended amphetamine family (including the various -drones) share very similar tastes, and crystallise very similarly. If you wash MDMA that contains these other substances you'll end up recrystallising those as well. > And it would have to be a damn big tablet to contain too much mdma... by bet is on what else is inside. Then your bet is factually wrong and likely dangerous. Test your stuff. Know what you're getting, start low, and don't listen to people who 'know what the real stuff looks like'
      - simonsaidit 8y ago
        I don’t disagree to starting low but definitely listen to people who knows where the good stuff is. Trusting your network is more realistic than having tested everything you get. In the perfect world I’d run around with a lab in my pocket sure....
Fnoord 8y ago
Ketamine? Combined with MDMA and its analogues??? In which country? Do you have links to drug reports / analysis?
- simonsaidit 8y ago
  its quite common to buy these things separate and mix it. we call it candy--something
- dillondoyle 8y ago
  Lol I'm with you. MDA, meth, uppers etc are far more likely adulterants in the US it seems, though perhaps K was more popular adulterant in the 90s [1]. 1) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5578728/#R6 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5578728/#R6
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- meej 8y ago
  It's not a common adulterant, so your skepticism is warranted, but using the advanced search at EcstasyData, I'm seeing about 6% of pills/substances they've tested that had both MDMA and ketamine in them. 804 results for MDMA + anything else: https://www.ecstasydata.org/search.php?search_field=adv&name=&field_test=&substance1=2012&substance2=-3&id=&color=&colorexact=0&city=&source=&m1=&y1=&m2=&y2=&state=&country=&sold_as_ecstasy=yes https://www.ecstasydata.org/search.php?search_field=adv&name... 50 results for MDMA + ketamine: https://www.ecstasydata.org/search.php?search_field=adv&name=&field_test=&substance1=2012&substance2=79&id=&color=&colorexact=0&city=&source=&m1=&y1=&m2=&y2=&state=&country=&sold_as_ecstasy=yes https://www.ecstasydata.org/search.php?search_field=adv&name...
  - Fnoord 8y ago
    Hmm, would be interesting to have some kind of graphs with this to see where in the world these pop up most.
senorjazz 8y ago
> It’s often laced with ketamine No it isn't. Other MD like drugs, sure, but ketamine no, not often

nounaut 8y ago

It was sort of hailed as a possible antibiotics of the mind before the war on drugs started and basically all research was halted. I think it's likely that that's what caused the bad rep more so than how the dealers mixed it. All drugs that were used in a recreational way was deemed as bad.

Nasrudith 8y ago
The prohibition of ecstasy makes me furious given the has caused how many millions to suffer needlessly for generations? And this in addition to the sheer obliviousness of starting the war on Drugs after Prohibition showed what happens when you try to do so.
ssijak 8y ago
Alcohol, cigarettes, sugary snacks...?
- froogie 8y ago
  A weak point. Alcohol can not be taken away, it has been tried. Had we not had alcohol in the first place, we'd likely have other things a-ok'd, and alcohol would be treated by its merits compared to other recreational substances. By all reason it would be illegal far before many other substances. Personally I am conflicted: on one hand we can see that the more we let people to have certain drugs, the less functional they are as human beings. On the other hand, if above point was really important, it would make sense to try to let people have the least harmful of these substances, so that, on average, the damage caused by their consumption is lower. A growing part of me thinks that drug policies aren't as much about preventing harms as it seems to be about "playing games". We could do better all around the world. But things move slowly, so slowly. Stigmas hold, people fall to the soothing lull of prejudice and simplistic arguments. This is all just business as usual.

yashap 8y ago

Agreed! Been a long time since I experimented with drugs, but when I used to, pure MDMA was really great. Just puts you in a super positive frame of mind, and makes you feel incredibly close and connected to whoever you’re doing it with. Not surprised at all that there’s a lot of therapeutic potential there.

simonsaidit 8y ago
Yes but it’s also pretty common to get into this regularly and soon after what you get one evening you have to give back some weeks later unless you then take all sorts of other drugs to compensate for that. I’ve seen the therapeutic effects up close and they are powerful but they are sadly short lived and hard to manage.
- meowface 8y ago
  All advice I've seen regarding the substance is to not take it more than once every 3 months. I think people just need to realize it really isn't a party drug you can take every or every other weekend. Not only will tolerance build very rapidly, but you're exposing your brain to excessive oxidative stress and overheating, and are likely causing serotonergic neurotoxicity (even if you take it with all the recommended supplements). It needs to be treated like a rare, therapeutic, and special vacation, not something you take whenever you want to have fun.
  - simonsaidit 8y ago
    yup. but young people in a culture where its quite common to do this every weekend are in a big risk not to follow that advice though.
- yahyaheee 8y ago
  The MAPS studies tell a different story here, only a couple sessions and over a year later a large majority of the subjects were still symptom free or greatly reduced
  - 8y ago

toomanybeersies 8y ago

Generally it's laced with amphetamine/methamphetamine as they're cheaper (per dose), and these days it's often laced with other substituted amphetamines such as mephedrone or PMA, neither of which are substances people would otherwise take as they're nasty shit. Generally when you hear about people being hospitalised or dying after taking ecstasy, it's due to the other shit in the pills. MDMA is a relatively safe drug (although not without its risks, especially taken in a non-therapeutic setting).

Fnoord 8y ago
> and these days it's often laced with other substituted amphetamines such as mephedrone or PMA "Often"? Often where? I'd say no since we'd hear about accidents with ecstasy "often" as well. This happens rarely, still. EDIT: Found some data [1]: "Although more recent ED data are not publicly available, the number of reported poisonings involving “hallucinogenic amphetamines” (which are most commonly MDMA and MDMA-like drugs) rose from 2057 (including 3 deaths) in 2009 to 2514 (including 14 deaths) in 2013" "Ecstasy purity was low in the US in the mid-1990s3 and purity plummeted in Europe around 2009,11 but increased in 2010,8,11 while purity of powder and crystal ecstasy reportedly remained high in Europe (at 75–97%) in 2008–2013.11 However, the presence of synthetic cathinones (“bath salts”) and other novel psychoactive substances (NPS) increased within both pills and powders from 2008–2013.11 Spain in particular had a high prevalence of synthetic cathinones such as mephedrone and methylone detected in powder ecstasy.9 Despite extensive research in Europe, purity of ecstasy in the US over the last decade has not been formally researched." [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5578728/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5578728/
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  13 people in New Zealand were put in hospital this summer [1] by MDMA laced with N-Ethylpentylone. It was also discovered after pill testing at a festival in Australia. In January several people in Melbourne were hospitalised one weekend after taking laced MDMA. I couldn't say how often MDMA is laced, and in what quantities, but it's definitely out there. [1] https://www.vice.com/en_nz/article/8xdzpb/heres-what-was-in-the-bad-batch-of-mdma-that-put-13-kiwis-in-hospital https://www.vice.com/en_nz/article/8xdzpb/heres-what-was-in-...

simonsaidit 8y ago

Ecstasy != mdma. It’s pretty easy to spot clean mdma visually or tasting or you can just recrystalize it yourself. It’s imoossible to figure out what is in ecstasy.. and is always a combo of above drugs and more. Clean mdma is more common these days than ecstasy in most of Europe atleast.

Nursie 8y ago
This is not really true. Several things look quite a lot like MDMA, and one of the problems with Ecstasy tablets in Europe at the moment is that they contain too much MDMA for a single dose. Always test your drugs people, and start low.
- simonsaidit 8y ago
  If you know this stuff you also know the taste and looks of the crystal and why eg it got the color it does. There is no easy way of knowing what is inside a tablet but the “pure” crystallized products are easy to recognize mdma especially. And it would have to be a damn big tablet to contain too much mdma... by bet is on what else is inside.
  - Nursie 8y ago
    > There is no easy way of knowing what is inside a tablet Chemical tests. > but the “pure” crystallized products are easy to recognize mdma especially Lots of the extended amphetamine family (including the various -drones) share very similar tastes, and crystallise very similarly. If you wash MDMA that contains these other substances you'll end up recrystallising those as well. > And it would have to be a damn big tablet to contain too much mdma... by bet is on what else is inside. Then your bet is factually wrong and likely dangerous. Test your stuff. Know what you're getting, start low, and don't listen to people who 'know what the real stuff looks like'
    - simonsaidit 8y ago
      I don’t disagree to starting low but definitely listen to people who knows where the good stuff is. Trusting your network is more realistic than having tested everything you get. In the perfect world I’d run around with a lab in my pocket sure....

Fnoord 8y ago

Ketamine? Combined with MDMA and its analogues??? In which country? Do you have links to drug reports / analysis?

simonsaidit 8y ago
its quite common to buy these things separate and mix it. we call it candy--something
dillondoyle 8y ago
Lol I'm with you. MDA, meth, uppers etc are far more likely adulterants in the US it seems, though perhaps K was more popular adulterant in the 90s [1]. 1) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5578728/#R6 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5578728/#R6
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
meej 8y ago
It's not a common adulterant, so your skepticism is warranted, but using the advanced search at EcstasyData, I'm seeing about 6% of pills/substances they've tested that had both MDMA and ketamine in them. 804 results for MDMA + anything else: https://www.ecstasydata.org/search.php?search_field=adv&name=&field_test=&substance1=2012&substance2=-3&id=&color=&colorexact=0&city=&source=&m1=&y1=&m2=&y2=&state=&country=&sold_as_ecstasy=yes https://www.ecstasydata.org/search.php?search_field=adv&name... 50 results for MDMA + ketamine: https://www.ecstasydata.org/search.php?search_field=adv&name=&field_test=&substance1=2012&substance2=79&id=&color=&colorexact=0&city=&source=&m1=&y1=&m2=&y2=&state=&country=&sold_as_ecstasy=yes https://www.ecstasydata.org/search.php?search_field=adv&name...
- Fnoord 8y ago
  Hmm, would be interesting to have some kind of graphs with this to see where in the world these pop up most.

senorjazz 8y ago

> It’s often laced with ketamine No it isn't. Other MD like drugs, sure, but ketamine no, not often