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> the facts are that 1000 people (0.000003% of the population) are killed by police annually. 24% of those killed are black Per 2016 US Census [1]: > Black

> the facts are that 1000 people (0.000003% of the population) are killed by police annually. 24% of those killed are black Per 2016 US Census [1]: > Black or African American = 40,241,818 (12.6%) Now compare with the number of people killed by the police in 2017 by race [2]. The math is left as an exercise for the reader... If you really believe that under-represented minorities are not at a major disadvantage in our society, facing multiple layers of explicit and implicit discrimination against them, then, in my opinion, you're part of the problem. > the lack of female representation in tech... Likewise, if you took the pseudo-science [3] by disgruntled engineers for granted, and believe that the lack of female representation in tech is due to some ridiculous genetic predisposition, ignoring 50+ years of biases and stereotypes, on top of open sexual and moral harassment, then you're part of the reason for the divide. It's exactly this kind of thinking that creates gender stereotyping and legitimizes the systemic sexism in our industry. If you're interested in understanding more about the true root causes of our gender disparity, a good initial read is "Brotopia: Breaking Up the Boys' Club of Silicon Valley", by the amazing Emily Chang [4]. No pseudo-science required. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demography_of_the_United_States&section=10 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demography_of_the... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de... [3] https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16127992/google-engineer-memo-research-science-women-biology-tech-james-damore https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16127992/google-engineer-me... [4] https://www.amazon.com/Brotopia-Breaking-Boys-Silicon-Valley/dp/0735213534 https://www.amazon.com/Brotopia-Breaking-Boys-Silicon-Valley...

AnthonyMouse 8y ago
> Now compare with the number of people killed by the police in 2017 by race [2]. The math is left as an exercise for the reader... Your point is obviously that the percentage is higher for black people. But the percentage is higher for black people for a wide variety of causes of death, like exposure to toxic substances (due to living in high risk areas), which actually kill more people. So why is this one in particular the subject of a national campaign? > ignoring 50+ years of biases and stereotypes The "tech industry" (meaning the likes of Google) wasn't possible before the internet was a thing used by the majority of the population. It hasn't even existed for 50+ years. And the predecessor industries you would have to include to get back that far had a much less skewed gender balance. Whatever this is, it doesn't have a 50+ year history. > on top of open sexual and moral harassment that created a toxic environment for women Studies have shown that the degree of sexual harassment in gender balanced industries like medicine is atrocious -- significantly worse than it is in tech. Attempting to use that as an explanation for the gender balance fails because the relative difference is in the opposite direction. > then you're helping to increase the gender divide. ...unless you're wrong about the causes, in which case we need to understand the real ones in order to do something about it. And for that we need to be able to talk about them without slamming the door in the face of anyone who questions the prevailing narrative. And Damore was clearly wrong about some things. But if you don't allow people to speak at the risk of being wrong then they'll say nothing even when they're right. When someone is wrong you don't eject them from the community, you explain why and have the debate.
- guiambros 8y ago
  > But the percentage is higher for black people for a wide variety of causes of death... Let me quote the title of the link above: "Number of people SHOT TO DEATH BY THE POLICE in the United States in 2017-2018, as of June, by race". Exposure to "toxic substances"? I don't think so. Also, tech industry != "the internet". If you're really interested in having a debate, go ahead and read Emily's book. Seriously. While you're at it, "The Innovators" [1] is also a good read, and it'll be helpful to understand that the roots of our "tech industry" really started 100+ years ago, with a disproportional growth starting several decades before Larry and Sergey even got admitted to kindergarten... The gender disparity we're seeing today is the consequence of several decades of systemic and widespread conscious and unconscious biases, that have shaped the perception of an entire generation. Once you refine your understanding and start paying attention, you can see it everywhere. And unfortunately it'll take decades to fix. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Hackers-Geniuses-Created-Revolution/dp/1476708703 https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Hackers-Geniuses-Created-R...

AnthonyMouse 8y ago

> Now compare with the number of people killed by the police in 2017 by race [2]. The math is left as an exercise for the reader... Your point is obviously that the percentage is higher for black people. But the percentage is higher for black people for a wide variety of causes of death, like exposure to toxic substances (due to living in high risk areas), which actually kill more people. So why is this one in particular the subject of a national campaign? > ignoring 50+ years of biases and stereotypes The "tech industry" (meaning the likes of Google) wasn't possible before the internet was a thing used by the majority of the population. It hasn't even existed for 50+ years. And the predecessor industries you would have to include to get back that far had a much less skewed gender balance. Whatever this is, it doesn't have a 50+ year history. > on top of open sexual and moral harassment that created a toxic environment for women Studies have shown that the degree of sexual harassment in gender balanced industries like medicine is atrocious -- significantly worse than it is in tech. Attempting to use that as an explanation for the gender balance fails because the relative difference is in the opposite direction. > then you're helping to increase the gender divide. ...unless you're wrong about the causes, in which case we need to understand the real ones in order to do something about it. And for that we need to be able to talk about them without slamming the door in the face of anyone who questions the prevailing narrative. And Damore was clearly wrong about some things. But if you don't allow people to speak at the risk of being wrong then they'll say nothing even when they're right. When someone is wrong you don't eject them from the community, you explain why and have the debate.

guiambros 8y ago
> But the percentage is higher for black people for a wide variety of causes of death... Let me quote the title of the link above: "Number of people SHOT TO DEATH BY THE POLICE in the United States in 2017-2018, as of June, by race". Exposure to "toxic substances"? I don't think so. Also, tech industry != "the internet". If you're really interested in having a debate, go ahead and read Emily's book. Seriously. While you're at it, "The Innovators" [1] is also a good read, and it'll be helpful to understand that the roots of our "tech industry" really started 100+ years ago, with a disproportional growth starting several decades before Larry and Sergey even got admitted to kindergarten... The gender disparity we're seeing today is the consequence of several decades of systemic and widespread conscious and unconscious biases, that have shaped the perception of an entire generation. Once you refine your understanding and start paying attention, you can see it everywhere. And unfortunately it'll take decades to fix. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Hackers-Geniuses-Created-Revolution/dp/1476708703 https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Hackers-Geniuses-Created-R...