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>One definition of power that is sometimes given: "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." I'm pointing this out be

by aluren 8y ago

>One definition of power that is sometimes given: "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." I'm pointing this out because I see no one else did, but that quote is from Kevin Alfred Strom, a neo-Nazi convicted for possession of child pornography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Alfred_Strom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Alfred_Strom) and he really meant to convey not-so-subtle antisemitic undertones with it. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but I thought you'd wanted to know so you won't have this pointed out in a more formal context by less charitable people.

haberman 8y ago
Appreciate the heads-up. I think it is a legitimate point despite its unsavory origins. But I agree that its origin makes invoking it a poor choice in low-trust discussion.
- omegaworks 8y ago
  >I think it is a legitimate point despite its unsavory origins. It's actually not. It's dismissive of the lived realities of people marginalized by unchosen structural norms. You can deny that identity has tangible effects, but that doesn't make what you say true. It only serves to demonstrate your blindspot. It is one that is commonly shared by people whose identity is considered the default. Some people that are loudly ignorant, especially those that defend their ignorance vigorously, face consequences in professional settings. As they should. It's a waste of everyone's time and effort.
  - haberman 8y ago
    > Some people that are loudly ignorant, especially those that defend their ignorance vigorously, face consequences in professional settings. Sort of like Galileo did? Sometimes the societal norms of what is considered "ignorant" are wrong. If you haven't come across it, I would highly recommend the book Galileo's Middle Finger. It was written by a lefty who started her career as an activist fighting for the humane treatment of intersex people (a marginalized group). But later in her career she discovered lots of people who were accused of being ignorant had actually been unfairly smeared by people whose accusations didn't stand up to scrutiny.
    - omegaworks 8y ago
      > Sort of like Galileo did? That you're comparing positions that advocate genocide to the thoughts of Galileo just shows your complete lack of genuine desire to understand.
      - haberman 8y ago
        Who said anything about genocide? The only specific position I have mentioned on this thread is dissenting from a corporate diversity policy. Do you have a genuine desire to understand what I am saying? If so, why would you suppose I am talking about positions that advocate genocide?
ibeckermayer 8y ago
What a total sequitur. The point of the quote isn't who said it, it's that it's true.
- GW150914 8y ago
  You can spend all day criticizing people and organizations in power in the US. The most powerful people, the most powerful companies, and everything else. How is it true except as a dog whistle for conspiracies? You can literally spend all day calling whichever president happens to be in power a cunt, along with every congressperson, judge, General, and CEO. The people who literally have the power of life and death over the citizenry are constantly criticized. Maybe the origin of the quote is important to understand what it really means. It’s a dog whistle to claim that insertgroup is really the power behind the throne. It was a way of saying that because it’s considered bad form to be a Jew-hating Nazi, and most of society will despise you for that, it means that Jews really run things. Changing Jews to some other group doesn’t change much. Claiming that gays or blacks or “lefties” or whichever group you think are really in charge because you’re not supposed to denigrate them, isn’t a good point, and using a Nazi pedophile’s quote to make it is telling.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

by aluren 8y ago

haberman 8y ago

Appreciate the heads-up. I think it is a legitimate point despite its unsavory origins. But I agree that its origin makes invoking it a poor choice in low-trust discussion.

omegaworks 8y ago
>I think it is a legitimate point despite its unsavory origins. It's actually not. It's dismissive of the lived realities of people marginalized by unchosen structural norms. You can deny that identity has tangible effects, but that doesn't make what you say true. It only serves to demonstrate your blindspot. It is one that is commonly shared by people whose identity is considered the default. Some people that are loudly ignorant, especially those that defend their ignorance vigorously, face consequences in professional settings. As they should. It's a waste of everyone's time and effort.
- haberman 8y ago
  > Some people that are loudly ignorant, especially those that defend their ignorance vigorously, face consequences in professional settings. Sort of like Galileo did? Sometimes the societal norms of what is considered "ignorant" are wrong. If you haven't come across it, I would highly recommend the book Galileo's Middle Finger. It was written by a lefty who started her career as an activist fighting for the humane treatment of intersex people (a marginalized group). But later in her career she discovered lots of people who were accused of being ignorant had actually been unfairly smeared by people whose accusations didn't stand up to scrutiny.
  - omegaworks 8y ago
    > Sort of like Galileo did? That you're comparing positions that advocate genocide to the thoughts of Galileo just shows your complete lack of genuine desire to understand.
    - haberman 8y ago
      Who said anything about genocide? The only specific position I have mentioned on this thread is dissenting from a corporate diversity policy. Do you have a genuine desire to understand what I am saying? If so, why would you suppose I am talking about positions that advocate genocide?

ibeckermayer 8y ago

What a total sequitur. The point of the quote isn't who said it, it's that it's true.

GW150914 8y ago
You can spend all day criticizing people and organizations in power in the US. The most powerful people, the most powerful companies, and everything else. How is it true except as a dog whistle for conspiracies? You can literally spend all day calling whichever president happens to be in power a cunt, along with every congressperson, judge, General, and CEO. The people who literally have the power of life and death over the citizenry are constantly criticized. Maybe the origin of the quote is important to understand what it really means. It’s a dog whistle to claim that insertgroup is really the power behind the throne. It was a way of saying that because it’s considered bad form to be a Jew-hating Nazi, and most of society will despise you for that, it means that Jews really run things. Changing Jews to some other group doesn’t change much. Claiming that gays or blacks or “lefties” or whichever group you think are really in charge because you’re not supposed to denigrate them, isn’t a good point, and using a Nazi pedophile’s quote to make it is telling.
deleted 8y ago
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