4 ms·

I have a few naïve questions maybe someone can answer: 1 - Why aren't they recommending any of the newer routers like the Asus RT-N66U/RT-AC68U? They're well s

I have a few naïve questions maybe someone can answer: 1 - Why aren't they recommending any of the newer routers like the Asus RT-N66U/RT-AC68U? They're well supported by OpenWRT and more available. 2 - To start a similar service in another city, do you need fiber already to be laid? For example, I'm in Pittsburgh and we don't have any fiber anywhere, does that mean it'd be impossible to have a community mesh like this here? 3 - Is there a way to find the "internet backbone" building in your city?

sethhochberg 8y ago
1 - don't have a good answer here 2 - a service like this doesn't rely on much fiber at all, outside of the point(s) where the mesh connects to the rest of the internet. Its almost all point-to-point wireless, with the points eventually converging back on the base stations at datacenters. 3 - the common term for this kind of facility is a "carrier hotel" or "ix" (like internet exchange). A carrier hotel is usually a dedicated-purpose facility where lots of different providers connect their networks together specifically for that purpose, but, hypothetically even a reasonably well-connected commercial datacenter will have at least a couple of carrier connections on site who could be used to create a mesh network base.
LORD_GARTH 8y ago
regarding point 1- im going to speculate that they are recommending hardware they are familiar with and know will work. the asus you are talking about looks like a smart router and might need to have a workaround to play well with others. ive had the hardest time trying to do anything technical with smart routers without just installing something like WRT and forgetting about the smart router stuff. im not sure about this one but it might pull a linksys and store your configuration data somewhere offsite, that would be an issue for me if thats the case as i value my privacy and local control of my hardware. if you feel comfortable working your router configuration it wouldnt hurt to try it
drewmol 8y ago
I'll take a stab... 1. They are likely using point-to-point/point-to-multi-point directional wireless equipment, designed for longer distance high bandwidth wireless connections where you know the fixed location of the transmitters/receivers and can tune/optimize for that purpose. Those devices you mentioned have hardware designed for omnidirectional local WiFi (broadcast & receive everywhere within x,00 feet). You could have one of those in you're home to provide wifi, and a point to point (with a directional antenna device designed for building-to-building/house-to-house connections) on you're roof to connect to the mesh network. Think of it as a mini satellite dish, pointed to the location from which the signal is being transmitted. Also, using standardized equiptment is more practical to efficiently deploy monitor and manager for a project like this. 2. No. The fiber will be there eventually, and wireless bandwidth is by far slowest link in the chain (the theoretical max speed of 802.11ac is eight 160MHz 256-QAM channels, each of which are capable of 866.7Mbps). Cat6 ethernet cable consisting of 8 conducting wires is capable of providing 10,000Mbps (10-Gigabit) maximum data rate, up to ~100m between powered devices. There are several types of fiber, OM4 is capable of 100,000Mbps over distances up to 150m. These are theoretical speeds, IRL divide by 2 twice and that's a good bencmark target (by 5 for WiFi ;-). 3. Internet Exchange Point https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_exchange_point https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_exchange_point Usually you're looking for 'co-los' (co-locations), buildings that host multi-company/parties server and network equipment and have high bandwidth connections to internet backbone provider networks.
Famicoman 8y ago
Hey there, I run Philly Mesh and am friendly with the MetaMesh folks in Pittsburgh. You might want to give them a shout if you’re interested in this stuff, https://www.metamesh.org https://www.metamesh.org
colindean 8y ago
Pittsburgh has a wireless community network, http://www.pittmesh.net http://www.pittmesh.net, which is run by Meta Mesh Wireless Communities, https://www.metamesh.org https://www.metamesh.org. I'm involved! MMWC doesn't have its own fiber but does have access to KINBER's PennREN fiber network, a little-known gem in the commonwealth that happens to run down Fifth Ave and a few other main roads in the city. We're working on rolling out access to it. As we're a donations- and grant-funded non-profit, our rollout will be slower than a commercial operation. Pittsburgh has a lot of fiber running through it, but most of it is commercial backbone fiber. One data center that I know of had 12 ISPs peering with it, and that was in 2009. Only Verizon FiOS has executed a residential rollout in the city, and you can read more about folks opinions on that in /r/pittsburgh. I've passed this thread to the MMWC executive team for them to add more detail!
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  Thank you so much! I'd love to get involved with PittMesh in any way I could.

sethhochberg 8y ago

1 - don't have a good answer here 2 - a service like this doesn't rely on much fiber at all, outside of the point(s) where the mesh connects to the rest of the internet. Its almost all point-to-point wireless, with the points eventually converging back on the base stations at datacenters. 3 - the common term for this kind of facility is a "carrier hotel" or "ix" (like internet exchange). A carrier hotel is usually a dedicated-purpose facility where lots of different providers connect their networks together specifically for that purpose, but, hypothetically even a reasonably well-connected commercial datacenter will have at least a couple of carrier connections on site who could be used to create a mesh network base.

LORD_GARTH 8y ago

regarding point 1- im going to speculate that they are recommending hardware they are familiar with and know will work. the asus you are talking about looks like a smart router and might need to have a workaround to play well with others. ive had the hardest time trying to do anything technical with smart routers without just installing something like WRT and forgetting about the smart router stuff. im not sure about this one but it might pull a linksys and store your configuration data somewhere offsite, that would be an issue for me if thats the case as i value my privacy and local control of my hardware. if you feel comfortable working your router configuration it wouldnt hurt to try it

drewmol 8y ago

I'll take a stab... 1. They are likely using point-to-point/point-to-multi-point directional wireless equipment, designed for longer distance high bandwidth wireless connections where you know the fixed location of the transmitters/receivers and can tune/optimize for that purpose. Those devices you mentioned have hardware designed for omnidirectional local WiFi (broadcast & receive everywhere within x,00 feet). You could have one of those in you're home to provide wifi, and a point to point (with a directional antenna device designed for building-to-building/house-to-house connections) on you're roof to connect to the mesh network. Think of it as a mini satellite dish, pointed to the location from which the signal is being transmitted. Also, using standardized equiptment is more practical to efficiently deploy monitor and manager for a project like this. 2. No. The fiber will be there eventually, and wireless bandwidth is by far slowest link in the chain (the theoretical max speed of 802.11ac is eight 160MHz 256-QAM channels, each of which are capable of 866.7Mbps). Cat6 ethernet cable consisting of 8 conducting wires is capable of providing 10,000Mbps (10-Gigabit) maximum data rate, up to ~100m between powered devices. There are several types of fiber, OM4 is capable of 100,000Mbps over distances up to 150m. These are theoretical speeds, IRL divide by 2 twice and that's a good bencmark target (by 5 for WiFi ;-). 3. Internet Exchange Point https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_exchange_point https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_exchange_point Usually you're looking for 'co-los' (co-locations), buildings that host multi-company/parties server and network equipment and have high bandwidth connections to internet backbone provider networks.

Famicoman 8y ago

Hey there, I run Philly Mesh and am friendly with the MetaMesh folks in Pittsburgh. You might want to give them a shout if you’re interested in this stuff, https://www.metamesh.org https://www.metamesh.org

colindean 8y ago

Pittsburgh has a wireless community network, http://www.pittmesh.net http://www.pittmesh.net, which is run by Meta Mesh Wireless Communities, https://www.metamesh.org https://www.metamesh.org. I'm involved! MMWC doesn't have its own fiber but does have access to KINBER's PennREN fiber network, a little-known gem in the commonwealth that happens to run down Fifth Ave and a few other main roads in the city. We're working on rolling out access to it. As we're a donations- and grant-funded non-profit, our rollout will be slower than a commercial operation. Pittsburgh has a lot of fiber running through it, but most of it is commercial backbone fiber. One data center that I know of had 12 ISPs peering with it, and that was in 2009. Only Verizon FiOS has executed a residential rollout in the city, and you can read more about folks opinions on that in /r/pittsburgh. I've passed this thread to the MMWC executive team for them to add more detail!

PascLeRasc 8y ago
Thank you so much! I'd love to get involved with PittMesh in any way I could.