6 ms·

It's called corporate social responsibility. Companies advocate for their bottom line and their employees at the same time. As a gay dude that grew up in Ohio

It's called corporate social responsibility. Companies advocate for their bottom line and their employees at the same time. As a gay dude that grew up in Ohio -- and had people yell "fag" when I got my diploma at graduation -- I'm beyond happy that the next generation of LGBTQ engineers won't grow up with the same level of hate I experienced. The arc of moral justice is only bent when force is applied.

badrabbit 8y ago
You only say that because it's convenient for you. You would not like it one bit at the conservative places I worked at. It really is a two way street and u-turns are allowed.
- taysic 8y ago
  This is an important question - how much personalization is ok within a workplace? I am grateful I've worked in really professional environments - nothing overtly political or anything. It might have been a bit bland, but honestly it helped us stay focused on the work.
- mcphage 8y ago
  > You would not like it one bit at the conservative places I worked at. So the commenter says that he looks forward to the next generation of developers not experiencing the hate that he has experienced. You say, he’d be unhappy at conservative places, presumably because he’d still experience that hate. So then why do you wonder why he pushes for politics in the workforce? His goal—hell, it should be all of our goal—is to stamp out places where such hate is encouraged.
  - Const-me 8y ago
    > why do you wonder why he pushes for politics in the workforce? Because he doesn’t understand that these places openly hostile towards gays are likely formed by white heterosexual Christian conservatives defending their identity and pushing for politics at workplace. > it should be all of our goal—is to stamp out places where such hate is encouraged You can’t stamp out people. You forcibly convert that one place to your faith, people will likely change jobs or move to other states.
    - ionised 8y ago
      What are these white heterosexual Christians defending their identity against?
      - Const-me 8y ago
        Against treats to that identity. Through most of the history, the threats were imaginary, and it was conservative majority who oppressed other people. Recently however, in places like Bay Area, the conservatives are no longer a majority, and consequently the treats became quite real, see e.g. https://www.scribd.com/document/368692388/James-Damore-Lawsuit https://www.scribd.com/document/368692388/James-Damore-Lawsu... I don’t think the right way to solve this is oppress, stamp out, or discriminate people positively or negatively. The right way is promoting tolerance (the good one i.e. civilized behavior towards people despite different positions, not the bad one that says everyone must express the only true position), and most importantly following the laws. Democracy + judicial system worked OK for centuries. IMO it’s the only working mechanism invented so far how a society can function despite different people have different identities and beliefs.
        mike10010100 8y ago
        > Against treats to that identity. What, precisely, about other minorities existing threatens that identity? You keep repeating this claim of threats, but haven't been able to articulate any. > I don’t think the right way to solve this is oppress, stamp out, or discriminate people positively or negatively. And yet that's precisely what the Google engineer linked to was doing by circulating his memo describing how he and others believed women weren't as "qualified" to be programmers based solely on their biology. Hence, why he was fired. The only thing that cannot be tolerated in a tolerant society is intolerance itself.
        Const-me 8y ago
        > haven't been able to articulate any. See the link in the previous comment. Being fired for expressing a political viewpoint is a classic example of discrimination. Also because the subject was about work conditions, the firing was illegal in California jurisdiction. > describing how he and others believed women weren't as "qualified" to be programmers Apparently, you have not read that memo. He never said that (I’ve just downloaded the memo and searched), nor anything similar to that. And IMO he never meant that either.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    I don't think the presumption is that he would still be experiencing the hate. But neither might his lifestyle be celebrated at work. And why should it be?
    - camel_Snake 8y ago
      I don't think he's looking to be celebrated, just accepted and treated fairly.
  - Chris_Chambers 8y ago
    If you hate conservatives and want to stamp them out, then by your own logic they’d be completely justified in preemptively stamping you out before you get the chance to do it to them.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - Veelox 8y ago
    >So then why do you wonder why he pushes for politics in the workforce? His goal—hell, it should be all of our goal—is to stamp out places where such hate is encouraged. How do you think a person who wore a MAGA hat to Google or Facebook would be treated? What about someone who advocates that people who entered the country without permission should be charged with a crime? I think the point being made is that be careful how the minority is treated because one day you might be in the minority. The best way to do that is to keep out politics out of work.
- colanderman 8y ago
  That an individual would "not like it one bit" at a politically-active conservative company for no reason other than that they are gay, is an argument against modern American conservatism, not against corporate social responsibility.
- alsetmusic 8y ago
  > You only say that because it's convenient for you. I’m a heterosexual white male. It’s convenient for me to ignore the hardship of people who are outside my demographic. I went for smoothies with a work friend who was outwardly gay and heard him called a faggot by a couple of random people when I realized how different life might be for someone who is not me. It was not great. It would be more convenient if I hadn’t heard that. The fact is, it happens.
o0-0o 8y ago
Cry me a river. I am not even gay and people yell fag at me in Bushwick all the time. Time to grow up dude. Sticks and stones...
- dang 8y ago
  We've banned this account for violating the site guidelines right after we asked you to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
irishcoffee 8y ago
https://image.slidesharecdn.com/simpleharmonicmotion-090324121249-phpapp02/95/simple-harmonic-motion-3-728.jpg?cb=1237896815 https://image.slidesharecdn.com/simpleharmonicmotion-0903241...
fatjokes 8y ago
I'm not saying you and others shouldn't be politically involved. I'm not even saying companies shouldn't contribute to political causes. I'm just saying they shouldn't encourage their workers to do so in the workplace. You shouldn't be called a slur at work not because of the type of slur, but the fact that it is a slur at all.
- camtarn 8y ago
  The idea that one shouldn't be called a slur at work, and the definition of a slur, is itself intensely political.
pluto9 8y ago
> Companies advocate for their bottom line and their employees at the same time. Pretty much just their bottom line. Companies advocate for whatever position makes a large majority of people think of them as the "good guys". How many companies did you see advocating for gay marriage before the political zietgeist shifted in favor of it a few years ago? Rest assured that all these "socially conscious" corporations will have a sudden and miraculous change of heart the instant the sociopolitical winds shift on any given issue. And you will be expected to fall in line or keep your opinions to yourself. Personally, I don't want my career success or failure to depend on my willingness to pledge fealty to whatever insincere political opinion my employer thinks is currently expedient.

badrabbit 8y ago

You only say that because it's convenient for you. You would not like it one bit at the conservative places I worked at. It really is a two way street and u-turns are allowed.

taysic 8y ago
This is an important question - how much personalization is ok within a workplace? I am grateful I've worked in really professional environments - nothing overtly political or anything. It might have been a bit bland, but honestly it helped us stay focused on the work.
mcphage 8y ago
> You would not like it one bit at the conservative places I worked at. So the commenter says that he looks forward to the next generation of developers not experiencing the hate that he has experienced. You say, he’d be unhappy at conservative places, presumably because he’d still experience that hate. So then why do you wonder why he pushes for politics in the workforce? His goal—hell, it should be all of our goal—is to stamp out places where such hate is encouraged.
- Const-me 8y ago
  > why do you wonder why he pushes for politics in the workforce? Because he doesn’t understand that these places openly hostile towards gays are likely formed by white heterosexual Christian conservatives defending their identity and pushing for politics at workplace. > it should be all of our goal—is to stamp out places where such hate is encouraged You can’t stamp out people. You forcibly convert that one place to your faith, people will likely change jobs or move to other states.
  - ionised 8y ago
    What are these white heterosexual Christians defending their identity against?
    - Const-me 8y ago
      Against treats to that identity. Through most of the history, the threats were imaginary, and it was conservative majority who oppressed other people. Recently however, in places like Bay Area, the conservatives are no longer a majority, and consequently the treats became quite real, see e.g. https://www.scribd.com/document/368692388/James-Damore-Lawsuit https://www.scribd.com/document/368692388/James-Damore-Lawsu... I don’t think the right way to solve this is oppress, stamp out, or discriminate people positively or negatively. The right way is promoting tolerance (the good one i.e. civilized behavior towards people despite different positions, not the bad one that says everyone must express the only true position), and most importantly following the laws. Democracy + judicial system worked OK for centuries. IMO it’s the only working mechanism invented so far how a society can function despite different people have different identities and beliefs.
      - mike10010100 8y ago
        > Against treats to that identity. What, precisely, about other minorities existing threatens that identity? You keep repeating this claim of threats, but haven't been able to articulate any. > I don’t think the right way to solve this is oppress, stamp out, or discriminate people positively or negatively. And yet that's precisely what the Google engineer linked to was doing by circulating his memo describing how he and others believed women weren't as "qualified" to be programmers based solely on their biology. Hence, why he was fired. The only thing that cannot be tolerated in a tolerant society is intolerance itself.
        Const-me 8y ago
        > haven't been able to articulate any. See the link in the previous comment. Being fired for expressing a political viewpoint is a classic example of discrimination. Also because the subject was about work conditions, the firing was illegal in California jurisdiction. > describing how he and others believed women weren't as "qualified" to be programmers Apparently, you have not read that memo. He never said that (I’ve just downloaded the memo and searched), nor anything similar to that. And IMO he never meant that either.
- ams6110 8y ago
  I don't think the presumption is that he would still be experiencing the hate. But neither might his lifestyle be celebrated at work. And why should it be?
  - camel_Snake 8y ago
    I don't think he's looking to be celebrated, just accepted and treated fairly.
- Chris_Chambers 8y ago
  If you hate conservatives and want to stamp them out, then by your own logic they’d be completely justified in preemptively stamping you out before you get the chance to do it to them.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Veelox 8y ago
  >So then why do you wonder why he pushes for politics in the workforce? His goal—hell, it should be all of our goal—is to stamp out places where such hate is encouraged. How do you think a person who wore a MAGA hat to Google or Facebook would be treated? What about someone who advocates that people who entered the country without permission should be charged with a crime? I think the point being made is that be careful how the minority is treated because one day you might be in the minority. The best way to do that is to keep out politics out of work.
colanderman 8y ago
That an individual would "not like it one bit" at a politically-active conservative company for no reason other than that they are gay, is an argument against modern American conservatism, not against corporate social responsibility.
alsetmusic 8y ago
> You only say that because it's convenient for you. I’m a heterosexual white male. It’s convenient for me to ignore the hardship of people who are outside my demographic. I went for smoothies with a work friend who was outwardly gay and heard him called a faggot by a couple of random people when I realized how different life might be for someone who is not me. It was not great. It would be more convenient if I hadn’t heard that. The fact is, it happens.

o0-0o 8y ago

Cry me a river. I am not even gay and people yell fag at me in Bushwick all the time. Time to grow up dude. Sticks and stones...

dang 8y ago
We've banned this account for violating the site guidelines right after we asked you to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

irishcoffee 8y ago

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/simpleharmonicmotion-090324121249-phpapp02/95/simple-harmonic-motion-3-728.jpg?cb=1237896815 https://image.slidesharecdn.com/simpleharmonicmotion-0903241...

fatjokes 8y ago

I'm not saying you and others shouldn't be politically involved. I'm not even saying companies shouldn't contribute to political causes. I'm just saying they shouldn't encourage their workers to do so in the workplace. You shouldn't be called a slur at work not because of the type of slur, but the fact that it is a slur at all.

camtarn 8y ago
The idea that one shouldn't be called a slur at work, and the definition of a slur, is itself intensely political.

pluto9 8y ago

> Companies advocate for their bottom line and their employees at the same time. Pretty much just their bottom line. Companies advocate for whatever position makes a large majority of people think of them as the "good guys". How many companies did you see advocating for gay marriage before the political zietgeist shifted in favor of it a few years ago? Rest assured that all these "socially conscious" corporations will have a sudden and miraculous change of heart the instant the sociopolitical winds shift on any given issue. And you will be expected to fall in line or keep your opinions to yourself. Personally, I don't want my career success or failure to depend on my willingness to pledge fealty to whatever insincere political opinion my employer thinks is currently expedient.