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The first three are deeply problematic and rooted in deep-seated white supremacist beliefs and absent mitigating circumstances I’d consider firing people who he

The first three are deeply problematic and rooted in deep-seated white supremacist beliefs and absent mitigating circumstances I’d consider firing people who held them. Sorry, that’s just how I have to feel given everything that’s been going on these days.

antidesitter 8y ago
> Criticizing of Islam's human rights record is deeply problematic. I’d consider firing people who do it. On pain of Poe’s law, are you being sarcastic?
vimy 8y ago
You equal criticising religion to white supremacy? That's really troubling.
- fake-name 8y ago
  Specifically singling out islam is very, very strongly correlated with it, so yes.
  - mmirate 8y ago
    Actually, specifically singling out Islam is only logical because it is the largest group of people with whom these issues are associated.
- webkike 8y ago
  Critcism of Islam is almost always qualified with "and that's why we shouldn't let them into our country"
  - manfredo 8y ago
    Then say what you really mean: criticism of Islam is okay, discrimination against Muslims is not.
manfredo 8y ago
This is exactly the kind of intolerance this memo is advocating against. If you genuinely would fire all the 45% of people that voted for Trump, anyone who disapproves of the rhetoric of BLM, or considers Islam to have a poor human rights record then I would suggest you take a look in mirror before trying to find intolerance in your employees. Easily the majority of the US population would hold at least one of those views. Heck, even the first almost brings it to 50%.
- charlesism 8y ago
  > Easily the majority of the US population > would hold at least one of those views. If the majority of the country holds a philosophy that favors the majority of the country, that doesn't automatically make it ethical. I won't insult you by bringing up obvious examples from American history. If you want to calibrate your moral compass, the right way to do it isn't always a show of hands.
  - manfredo 8y ago
    Sure, but saying you'd fire the majority of the US population in the name of tolerance is absolutely contradictory. The notion that a blanket firing of 45% of the adult population is an act of tolerance is ridiculous. Sure I do think there are some views that should not be tolerated and employees who advocate them should be removed - none of the four listed there come close to it, though.
    - charlesism 8y ago
      > The notion that a blanket firing of > 45% of the adult population is an act > of tolerance is ridiculous. Nope. It's perfectly moral, logical, and whether it's 45%, or 1%, or 99% makes no difference. The examples from history are too numerous to mention. You have to decide what your values are and stand by them.
      - manfredo 8y ago
        I'm not talking about morality or ethics, I'm talking about tolerance. Only tolerating the things you think are morally right isn't tolerance - quite the opposite. Tolerance entails tolerating things even when you don't find them morally right. For instance, I think a closed border is morally bad - it's still an act of intolerance if I were to fire someone for supporting enforcement of immigration laws. This warped definition of tolerance particularly worried me. The growing notion that tolerance means snuffing out views one disapproves of, rather than tolerating them is the root of much of the growing political division in my opinion. And not to mention, there's a big risk that this will hurt liberals in the long run. It's easy to forget that this line of thinking also empowers conservatives to snuff out views they don't like - and look at who's in control of the White House, Congress, and (likely soon to be) the Supreme Court.
_iyig 8y ago
I don’t agree that all criticism of misogynistic divorce laws, violence against “immodest” women, and application of the death penalty for homosexuality or apostasy is driven by “deeply-rooted white supremacy.” I would fire anyone who held such a belief, as I would not trust them around female, gay, or ex-Muslim co-workers.
- bodas 8y ago
  A straw man would probably not be a very effective employee anyway.
  - _iyig 8y ago
    If you feel I’ve misunderstood your comment, or that you did not fully articulate your point, please feel free to elaborate. I’m not overly swayed or impressed by drive-by disparagement.
    - bodas 8y ago
      > misogynistic divorce laws, violence against “immodest” women, and application of the death penalty for homosexuality or apostasy It is a caricature. You have been reading the internet too much and spent too little time talking to actual Muslim people. However, if you find out that one of your employees is a member of the taliban, feel free to fire him.
      - _iyig 8y ago
        There are 13 Muslim-majority countries where apostasy is punishable by death, including Malaysia, Iran, Nigeria, the UAE, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia. Pakistan only imposes the death sentence for blasphemy. The UK has many sharia courts which act as marriage and divorce authorities, where women often have far fewer rights than men. (This sounds hysterical and far-right-ish, but it’s true) I’ve heard horror stories of ex-Muslims in the US who were kidnapped and physically abused by their family when they tried to leave Islam. Between mass-rape attacks in Germany, the many, many grooming gangs in the UK, and the latest sexual assault statistics from Sweden, I think it’s fair to take a skeptical eye towards mainstream Islamic male culture. Moderate and reformist Muslims in the West, for context, comprise a small majority of the faithful. The Christian and Jewish faiths have reformed and lightened up with the liberalization of Western society. I think it’s fair to expect and allow adherents to the Islamic faith to walk a similar path. EDIT: And for the record, I get along great with my Muslim co-workers. Please stop moving goalposts; to reiterate, your premise was that criticism of Islam's human rights record is driven by deep-rooted white supremacy.
chimpburger 8y ago
You are deeply and profoundly irrational. Feeling without thinking.
Tycho 8y ago
Sufficiently advanced liberalism is indistinguishable from satire.

antidesitter 8y ago

> Criticizing of Islam's human rights record is deeply problematic. I’d consider firing people who do it. On pain of Poe’s law, are you being sarcastic?

vimy 8y ago

You equal criticising religion to white supremacy? That's really troubling.

fake-name 8y ago
Specifically singling out islam is very, very strongly correlated with it, so yes.
- mmirate 8y ago
  Actually, specifically singling out Islam is only logical because it is the largest group of people with whom these issues are associated.
webkike 8y ago
Critcism of Islam is almost always qualified with "and that's why we shouldn't let them into our country"
- manfredo 8y ago
  Then say what you really mean: criticism of Islam is okay, discrimination against Muslims is not.

manfredo 8y ago

This is exactly the kind of intolerance this memo is advocating against. If you genuinely would fire all the 45% of people that voted for Trump, anyone who disapproves of the rhetoric of BLM, or considers Islam to have a poor human rights record then I would suggest you take a look in mirror before trying to find intolerance in your employees. Easily the majority of the US population would hold at least one of those views. Heck, even the first almost brings it to 50%.

charlesism 8y ago
> Easily the majority of the US population > would hold at least one of those views. If the majority of the country holds a philosophy that favors the majority of the country, that doesn't automatically make it ethical. I won't insult you by bringing up obvious examples from American history. If you want to calibrate your moral compass, the right way to do it isn't always a show of hands.
- manfredo 8y ago
  Sure, but saying you'd fire the majority of the US population in the name of tolerance is absolutely contradictory. The notion that a blanket firing of 45% of the adult population is an act of tolerance is ridiculous. Sure I do think there are some views that should not be tolerated and employees who advocate them should be removed - none of the four listed there come close to it, though.
  - charlesism 8y ago
    > The notion that a blanket firing of > 45% of the adult population is an act > of tolerance is ridiculous. Nope. It's perfectly moral, logical, and whether it's 45%, or 1%, or 99% makes no difference. The examples from history are too numerous to mention. You have to decide what your values are and stand by them.
    - manfredo 8y ago
      I'm not talking about morality or ethics, I'm talking about tolerance. Only tolerating the things you think are morally right isn't tolerance - quite the opposite. Tolerance entails tolerating things even when you don't find them morally right. For instance, I think a closed border is morally bad - it's still an act of intolerance if I were to fire someone for supporting enforcement of immigration laws. This warped definition of tolerance particularly worried me. The growing notion that tolerance means snuffing out views one disapproves of, rather than tolerating them is the root of much of the growing political division in my opinion. And not to mention, there's a big risk that this will hurt liberals in the long run. It's easy to forget that this line of thinking also empowers conservatives to snuff out views they don't like - and look at who's in control of the White House, Congress, and (likely soon to be) the Supreme Court.

_iyig 8y ago

I don’t agree that all criticism of misogynistic divorce laws, violence against “immodest” women, and application of the death penalty for homosexuality or apostasy is driven by “deeply-rooted white supremacy.” I would fire anyone who held such a belief, as I would not trust them around female, gay, or ex-Muslim co-workers.

bodas 8y ago
A straw man would probably not be a very effective employee anyway.
- _iyig 8y ago
  If you feel I’ve misunderstood your comment, or that you did not fully articulate your point, please feel free to elaborate. I’m not overly swayed or impressed by drive-by disparagement.
  - bodas 8y ago
    > misogynistic divorce laws, violence against “immodest” women, and application of the death penalty for homosexuality or apostasy It is a caricature. You have been reading the internet too much and spent too little time talking to actual Muslim people. However, if you find out that one of your employees is a member of the taliban, feel free to fire him.
    - _iyig 8y ago
      There are 13 Muslim-majority countries where apostasy is punishable by death, including Malaysia, Iran, Nigeria, the UAE, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia. Pakistan only imposes the death sentence for blasphemy. The UK has many sharia courts which act as marriage and divorce authorities, where women often have far fewer rights than men. (This sounds hysterical and far-right-ish, but it’s true) I’ve heard horror stories of ex-Muslims in the US who were kidnapped and physically abused by their family when they tried to leave Islam. Between mass-rape attacks in Germany, the many, many grooming gangs in the UK, and the latest sexual assault statistics from Sweden, I think it’s fair to take a skeptical eye towards mainstream Islamic male culture. Moderate and reformist Muslims in the West, for context, comprise a small majority of the faithful. The Christian and Jewish faiths have reformed and lightened up with the liberalization of Western society. I think it’s fair to expect and allow adherents to the Islamic faith to walk a similar path. EDIT: And for the record, I get along great with my Muslim co-workers. Please stop moving goalposts; to reiterate, your premise was that criticism of Islam's human rights record is driven by deep-rooted white supremacy.

chimpburger 8y ago

You are deeply and profoundly irrational. Feeling without thinking.

Tycho 8y ago

Sufficiently advanced liberalism is indistinguishable from satire.