3 ms·
Ask HN: Would You Give Your Client Phone Calls For Free?
If a client insisted that they would not pay for phone calls, even calls in which they were discussing thier projects with you, getting feedback from you, and brainstorming new ideas for thier product (calls that lasted upto 1hour)... would you work with them for $75/hour for all other billable time? Or would you not work with them period?
- lionhearted 16y agoNo right answer to this, it very much depends on where you're at. At the very least, note down the calls you do on invoicing and write "no charge" by them so the client understands what they're getting. If the client is a good client overall, absolutely refuses to pay for calls, but it's an unreasonable time sink for you - you can always just raise your billable rate a little bit to compensate, to $85 or whatever. People get funny about paying for certain things and not other things. Like, someone might absolutely insist that you pay the postage and printing costs for documents and reports you make up for them which is a trivial number, but then they don't flinch at a 20% rate increase. Strange world. Just go with the flow on it, everything is negotiable. Try not to stuck on a little detail if a person's got a dead set policy on it, there's usually another way to get everyone what they want as long as it's generally a good deal for both sides.
- jv22222 16y agoBut lets say a client refuses to pay for five hours of phone time, that in the end, brings value to the clients business... isn't that a little bit fishy? Why should the dev have to sink the $375 cost? Just curious as to your thoughts.
- lionhearted 16y ago> Why should the dev have to sink the $375 cost? You don't have to. Let's say you're doing 20 hours of billable work at $75. That's $1500. Now let's say a client adamantly refuses to pay for any of the time you spend on the phone with them, even though that's normally billable work for you. That means you're spending 25 hours and would like to be compensated $1875. Instead of fighting and insisting you get paid for calls you could instead just quote a rate of $95 per hour for billable work, include free phone calls, and make your rate. It's not logical, but some people would be happier to pay a higher rate with some freebies thrown in. If being billed that way makes them happier and you make what you're looking to make, that's a fine way to go about it.
- cperciva 16y agoMy rule is that I don't bill for time I spend receiving instructions, but I do bill for any time I spend providing advice except when the advice takes the form of recommending that I not be paid to do a particular project. Of course, I don't work for $75/hour either. In the end, everything is subject to negotiation.
- bdfh42 16y agoProject time is always billable. Sales time is not - although (of course) sales time costs have to be recovered and must form a part of your project hourly rates. I would worry about a customer who does not understand this basic business concept - "there is no such thing as a free lunch".
- srgseg 16y agoBeware that people react very badly to you charging them to 'talk' or 'discuss' things. I remember a senior exec at a telecoms firm that had a high six figure budget to spend on a particular type of solution. He was so offended by the idea of paying $250 to attend a workshop that he just ignored that solution provider. Build the cost of talking/discussing/brainstorming into your overall price and this will no longer be an issue. Consider it part of your sales and marketing budget.
- allwein 16y ago>Build the cost of talking/discussing/brainstorming into your overall price and this will no longer be an issue. Consider it part of your sales and marketing budget. I couldn't agree more. And in fact, this becomes another unique selling point to you and your services. I provide free phone calls up to a reasonable point. If it's going to be a case of a 3-hour marathon conference call, I'll arrange to be onsite, which clients then don't mind paying for. If it's anything up to 45 minutes, I just eat the cost as sales and marketing. I can't tell you how many times this makes an existing client willing to call me up and discuss possibilities for additional work because he knows it won't cost him anything. This lets me get in on the ground floor for new ideas so I can make recommendations and provide guidance.
- brudgers 16y agoSometimes insight comes in the second hour.That's the problem with hourly contracts, they get in the way of rapport,talking through issues, and brainstorming. Clients who don't want to pay for phone calls need a full price contract with a clearly defined scope of services based on a well developed specification and established budget. edit: Though sometimes, unbilled time is best seen as client management.