40 ms·

There is no mechanical advantage, they have their response time capped at 200ms which is around an elite player's reaction. They can definitely strategize for g

There is no mechanical advantage, they have their response time capped at 200ms which is around an elite player's reaction. They can definitely strategize for ganks and the future reward function anticipates high reward roaming/ganking plays.

dragontamer 8y ago
They have 200ms reaction time without needing to move a mouse and/or target the opponent. A human has ~200ms simple reaction time, then begins to move their fingers. Which then moves a mouse to target an area, which then requires hotkeys to be pushed. etc. etc. Its still definitely a mechanical advantage, and it seems evident in the gameplay videos. The bots still seem "super-human" in their aim and some of the timing of spells.
- SmallDeadGuy 8y ago
  Not to mention they have exact numbers to help, too. A human sees a healthbar ~1/4 full of a hero with ~1200 health and has to guess whether their ~300 damage spell will kill them. If not, are they sure they're in range for an auto attack, too? Will the enemy health regen push them over the life-death boundary in the time it takes for the projectile to reach? The bots know these numbers _precisely_.
gsich 8y ago
Of course there is, no need for button presses, no need for mouse movements. While you can probably train yourself to have a reaction time of 100ms (in case of expected events), executing takes more time. You said you know Dota, but that statement makes it hard to believe.
kenhwang 8y ago
200ms is faster than the 300ms cast time of Axe's call and Tidehunter's ravage. Pros almost never react fast enough to blink/euls dodge those skills (0s cast time for blink/euls, 200ms reaction time gives the bots a 100ms window to respond). The bots dodged those skills every time. That was the only initiation option available in that draft until late game and the bots were more or less immune to it. That's a pretty significant mechanical advantage.
- s_trumpet 8y ago
  As you said, the common Axe blink-call combo does not work on these bots; they dodge it immediately. What was interesting to me was that since the bots trained against themselves, they discarded this combo as being ineffective - the result being that they did not use this combo even against vulnerable human players.
- backpropaganda 8y ago
  Axe's cast time (also called cast point) is 400ms. Source: https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Axe https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Axe This means that Dota 2 was balanced around the expectation that human's best reaction would be at least 400ms, because I've never seen Axe's blink calls being dodged unless the player had vision of Axe before the blink and thus was expecting it.

dragontamer 8y ago

They have 200ms reaction time without needing to move a mouse and/or target the opponent. A human has ~200ms simple reaction time, then begins to move their fingers. Which then moves a mouse to target an area, which then requires hotkeys to be pushed. etc. etc. Its still definitely a mechanical advantage, and it seems evident in the gameplay videos. The bots still seem "super-human" in their aim and some of the timing of spells.

SmallDeadGuy 8y ago
Not to mention they have exact numbers to help, too. A human sees a healthbar ~1/4 full of a hero with ~1200 health and has to guess whether their ~300 damage spell will kill them. If not, are they sure they're in range for an auto attack, too? Will the enemy health regen push them over the life-death boundary in the time it takes for the projectile to reach? The bots know these numbers _precisely_.

gsich 8y ago

Of course there is, no need for button presses, no need for mouse movements. While you can probably train yourself to have a reaction time of 100ms (in case of expected events), executing takes more time. You said you know Dota, but that statement makes it hard to believe.

kenhwang 8y ago

200ms is faster than the 300ms cast time of Axe's call and Tidehunter's ravage. Pros almost never react fast enough to blink/euls dodge those skills (0s cast time for blink/euls, 200ms reaction time gives the bots a 100ms window to respond). The bots dodged those skills every time. That was the only initiation option available in that draft until late game and the bots were more or less immune to it. That's a pretty significant mechanical advantage.

s_trumpet 8y ago
As you said, the common Axe blink-call combo does not work on these bots; they dodge it immediately. What was interesting to me was that since the bots trained against themselves, they discarded this combo as being ineffective - the result being that they did not use this combo even against vulnerable human players.
backpropaganda 8y ago
Axe's cast time (also called cast point) is 400ms. Source: https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Axe https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Axe This means that Dota 2 was balanced around the expectation that human's best reaction would be at least 400ms, because I've never seen Axe's blink calls being dodged unless the player had vision of Axe before the blink and thus was expecting it.