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Wanna get back to me with the % of white women who still voted for Trump despite all his comments and history? It seems like your position is that "everyone ga

Wanna get back to me with the % of white women who still voted for Trump despite all his comments and history? It seems like your position is that "everyone gang up on white men" is a winning strategy because we've now sliced off a minority that doesn't get to 51%. Ethics of that aside, it hasn't been working. Obama and Bill Clinton won on thinking and inclusiveness. Not on division and resentment.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Ethics of that aside, it hasn't been working. Obama and Bill Clinton won on thinking and inclusiveness. Clinton and Obama received almost exactly the same criticism that you've made here of (presumably, you haven't actually named a target except by vague implication) current Democrats, by both those outside the party and some of their critics within the party. Sure, it wasn't well-founded, but it was no less well-founded than your criticism.
- yourbandsucks 8y ago
  This thread is full of people defending and endorsing identity politics. The comment I'm replying to in this thread is a great example. Obama in particular was very careful not to do that.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > This thread is full of people defending and endorsing identity politics. So were random conversations with Obama supporters. > Obama in particular was very careful not to do that. And yet, to the extent that is true, he was still charged with it by critics just like you, because plenty of people in his base did it, and so that was—to them—the primary message of Obama's party. Of course, he was also a accused of doing it directly with his own statements, not just being the face of movement which did it, particularly after his “evolution” on LGBT rights during his first term, and also specifically in his speech addressing the killing of Trayvon Martin.
    - yourbandsucks 8y ago
      Man, you are comparing totally unfair attacks on Obama to totally fair attacks on rich 25yos who say ridiculous things about race and privilege without ever having any real hardship or responsibility in their lives. I mean, you want to compare the Trayvon Martin story to stories of techies pitching a fit about the word "blacklist" in a codebase? That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, in case it wasn't clear. Can we not differentiate?
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Man, you are comparing totally unfair attacks on Obama to totally fair attacks on rich 25yos who say ridiculous things about race and privilege without ever having any real hardship or responsibility in their lives. This is incorrect on several levels. But, most centrally, I'm saying people like the rich 20 year olds have been around forever, that people have been attacking the Democratic Party about them forever, they aren't a meaningful change from what has been around for decades, and your implicit claim that they are a change from Clinton and Obama is erroneous I. comparing fringe non-politicians that may seem locally significant in your social circles to career politicians who are also succesful Presidential candidates and being surprised that the former have a less carefully crafted political presentation for mass appeal, which is an unsurprising observation with no particular significance.
        yourbandsucks 8y ago
        Poor 20something artists with far left views have been around forever. 25yos making 200k working for the man and then lecturing others who make less about privilege is pretty new. I get what you're saying about singling out the dumbest individuals in a movement, but as techie liberals, I think we have an obligation to police. Just like principled conservatives vs their racists.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Ethics of that aside, it hasn't been working. Obama and Bill Clinton won on thinking and inclusiveness. Clinton and Obama received almost exactly the same criticism that you've made here of (presumably, you haven't actually named a target except by vague implication) current Democrats, by both those outside the party and some of their critics within the party. Sure, it wasn't well-founded, but it was no less well-founded than your criticism.

yourbandsucks 8y ago
This thread is full of people defending and endorsing identity politics. The comment I'm replying to in this thread is a great example. Obama in particular was very careful not to do that.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > This thread is full of people defending and endorsing identity politics. So were random conversations with Obama supporters. > Obama in particular was very careful not to do that. And yet, to the extent that is true, he was still charged with it by critics just like you, because plenty of people in his base did it, and so that was—to them—the primary message of Obama's party. Of course, he was also a accused of doing it directly with his own statements, not just being the face of movement which did it, particularly after his “evolution” on LGBT rights during his first term, and also specifically in his speech addressing the killing of Trayvon Martin.
  - yourbandsucks 8y ago
    Man, you are comparing totally unfair attacks on Obama to totally fair attacks on rich 25yos who say ridiculous things about race and privilege without ever having any real hardship or responsibility in their lives. I mean, you want to compare the Trayvon Martin story to stories of techies pitching a fit about the word "blacklist" in a codebase? That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, in case it wasn't clear. Can we not differentiate?
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Man, you are comparing totally unfair attacks on Obama to totally fair attacks on rich 25yos who say ridiculous things about race and privilege without ever having any real hardship or responsibility in their lives. This is incorrect on several levels. But, most centrally, I'm saying people like the rich 20 year olds have been around forever, that people have been attacking the Democratic Party about them forever, they aren't a meaningful change from what has been around for decades, and your implicit claim that they are a change from Clinton and Obama is erroneous I. comparing fringe non-politicians that may seem locally significant in your social circles to career politicians who are also succesful Presidential candidates and being surprised that the former have a less carefully crafted political presentation for mass appeal, which is an unsurprising observation with no particular significance.
      - yourbandsucks 8y ago
        Poor 20something artists with far left views have been around forever. 25yos making 200k working for the man and then lecturing others who make less about privilege is pretty new. I get what you're saying about singling out the dumbest individuals in a movement, but as techie liberals, I think we have an obligation to police. Just like principled conservatives vs their racists.