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> Sounds all fine and dandy until you realize that these charges will just be made up for by people that aren't able to get NPR to publish a story about them.

> Sounds all fine and dandy until you realize that these charges will just be made up for by people that aren't able to get NPR to publish a story about them. No, St. David's has already fully recouped their costs and then some. They were simply trying to extract as much money as the stone could bleed.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Yes, but OPs point is they will still do this to people who can't get media attention. It continues to be a systemic issue that must be fixed. Disclaimer: Universal healthcare advocate
manigandham 8y ago
The point is that the bill won't just go away for other people, regardless of how much profit is made and whether costs are already covered by the hospital.
lacker 8y ago
I was going to respond saying that most hospitals are nonprofits and aren't actually making a great profit margin off this sort of overcharging. But then I looked it up and St. David's, despite having a religious nonprofit-sounding name, is actually owned by HCA Healthcare, which is a for-profit that has almost 4x'd its stock price over the past five years while acquiring more hospitals to grow. So, yeah, this one is about corporations squeezing money out of people because they can. sources: https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-transactions-and-valuation/hca-owned-st-david-s-healthcare-acquires-9-texas-clinics.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-transactions-... https://www.google.com/search?q=NYSE:HCA https://www.google.com/search?q=NYSE:HCA
- dv_dt 8y ago
  For hospitals which really are non-profit a) the non-profit status doesn't prevent price gouging b) even if acting as a traditional non-proft, they may do so to balance revenue against people with no insurance and no ability to pay. (a burden we load onto hospitals that we should actually be sharing much more explictly and universally across our nation).
- jhayward 8y ago
  > despite having a religious nonprofit-sounding name They came by the name honestly, but it is indeed a shame the way it has gone since the St. David's Foundation partnered with HCA. The hospital(s) were originally founded and run by St. David's Episcopal and were one of the first and foremost hospitals in Austin, with very high quality care and good service to the community. After operating them for nearly 75 years, and growing to an enormous enterprise, it became clear that a church congregation simply couldn't and shouldn't be operating them any further and they were spun out. Some of the profits are still sent back to the foundation for community health care grants. This particular wealth extraction strategy would never have occurred under church leadership. (disclaimer: I was a member of the church during this period and hold it in very high regard)
- diab0lic 8y ago
  My ex worked for HCA and she insisted that she could tell you the exact cost of a procedure before undergoing it. Well at some point she needed surgery (at HCA), and about five months later after dealing with 10 < x < 20 bills including one we'd never heard about until collections came knocking she just looked at me and said "Nobody knows what this is going to cost." It really bums me out that a human being working in healthcare here isn't able to even remotely predict the cost of a procedure at the hospital at which they work.
- bmmayer1 8y ago
  > squeezing money out of insurance companies because they can FTFY. But seriously, how can it possibly be the hospital's fault for doing exactly what the law and market incentives give them every reason to do? There's almost no downward pressure on prices: little competition, no transparent pricing, huge barriers to market entry, and third party payers.
  - s73v3r_ 8y ago
    "But seriously, how can it possibly be the hospital's fault for doing exactly what the law and market incentives give them every reason to do? " Because they're the ones actually doing it? Because they're run by adults who are fully capable of taking responsibility for their actions?
    - InitialLastName 8y ago
      The US (and others, but the US especially) has a long-standing practice of divesting corporations from the responsibility for their actions. Worse, it's frequently the same people who argue that corporations are "people" arguing that corporations as a whole shouldn't be held responsible for their actions.
      - bmmayer1 8y ago
        A profit-making corporation exists to make a profit, which isn't illegal or immoral, so I fail to see what 'responsibility' they have other than continuing to do what their shareholders have literally given them money to do. Your problem is with the system, not with my grandma whose pension fund is invested in the hospital.
  - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
    Nobody's denying the facts you gave...lack of competition, lack of transparent pricing, etc. But to use people's lives as leverage to extract absurd amounts of money goes well beyond being immoral, it's just downright evil.
    - 8y ago
- hogwild 8y ago
  HCA is owned by Bill Frist's family. Dirty stuff.
- gowld 8y ago
  HCA is a massive criminal enterprise. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_Corporation_of_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_Corporation_of_Amer...
- ta76567656 8y ago
  Maybe they could change their name to "Hospital of the Temple Moneychangers"
jimmydddd 8y ago
What's strange is that many hospitals seem to legitimately be in financial trouble. You often hear about smaller hospitals not being able to make it financially, and being gobbled up by larger health networks. How can I be paying them $600 for an asprin, and other fake charges, and they still can't make any money?
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  Well, you'll notice on this bill in the article they've taken to charging "near retail" pricing for aspirin, and generic pricing for common drugs many of us will know the price of (still relatively outrageous, but $1/pill for aspirin, $10/pill for metoprolol). Why? Not out of the kindness of their hearts. They know that their name showing up with a bill for $500 for ASA is bad PR, so better to make those common things realistic, and pad their numbers elsewhere (like charging $19,500 for a $1,500 stent)...
- bobmarley1 8y ago
  Like in Education the glut of "Administrators" is certainly not helping.

toomuchtodo 8y ago

Yes, but OPs point is they will still do this to people who can't get media attention. It continues to be a systemic issue that must be fixed. Disclaimer: Universal healthcare advocate

manigandham 8y ago

The point is that the bill won't just go away for other people, regardless of how much profit is made and whether costs are already covered by the hospital.

lacker 8y ago

I was going to respond saying that most hospitals are nonprofits and aren't actually making a great profit margin off this sort of overcharging. But then I looked it up and St. David's, despite having a religious nonprofit-sounding name, is actually owned by HCA Healthcare, which is a for-profit that has almost 4x'd its stock price over the past five years while acquiring more hospitals to grow. So, yeah, this one is about corporations squeezing money out of people because they can. sources: https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-transactions-and-valuation/hca-owned-st-david-s-healthcare-acquires-9-texas-clinics.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-transactions-... https://www.google.com/search?q=NYSE:HCA https://www.google.com/search?q=NYSE:HCA

dv_dt 8y ago
For hospitals which really are non-profit a) the non-profit status doesn't prevent price gouging b) even if acting as a traditional non-proft, they may do so to balance revenue against people with no insurance and no ability to pay. (a burden we load onto hospitals that we should actually be sharing much more explictly and universally across our nation).
jhayward 8y ago
> despite having a religious nonprofit-sounding name They came by the name honestly, but it is indeed a shame the way it has gone since the St. David's Foundation partnered with HCA. The hospital(s) were originally founded and run by St. David's Episcopal and were one of the first and foremost hospitals in Austin, with very high quality care and good service to the community. After operating them for nearly 75 years, and growing to an enormous enterprise, it became clear that a church congregation simply couldn't and shouldn't be operating them any further and they were spun out. Some of the profits are still sent back to the foundation for community health care grants. This particular wealth extraction strategy would never have occurred under church leadership. (disclaimer: I was a member of the church during this period and hold it in very high regard)
diab0lic 8y ago
My ex worked for HCA and she insisted that she could tell you the exact cost of a procedure before undergoing it. Well at some point she needed surgery (at HCA), and about five months later after dealing with 10 < x < 20 bills including one we'd never heard about until collections came knocking she just looked at me and said "Nobody knows what this is going to cost." It really bums me out that a human being working in healthcare here isn't able to even remotely predict the cost of a procedure at the hospital at which they work.
bmmayer1 8y ago
> squeezing money out of insurance companies because they can FTFY. But seriously, how can it possibly be the hospital's fault for doing exactly what the law and market incentives give them every reason to do? There's almost no downward pressure on prices: little competition, no transparent pricing, huge barriers to market entry, and third party payers.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  "But seriously, how can it possibly be the hospital's fault for doing exactly what the law and market incentives give them every reason to do? " Because they're the ones actually doing it? Because they're run by adults who are fully capable of taking responsibility for their actions?
  - InitialLastName 8y ago
    The US (and others, but the US especially) has a long-standing practice of divesting corporations from the responsibility for their actions. Worse, it's frequently the same people who argue that corporations are "people" arguing that corporations as a whole shouldn't be held responsible for their actions.
    - bmmayer1 8y ago
      A profit-making corporation exists to make a profit, which isn't illegal or immoral, so I fail to see what 'responsibility' they have other than continuing to do what their shareholders have literally given them money to do. Your problem is with the system, not with my grandma whose pension fund is invested in the hospital.
- Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
  Nobody's denying the facts you gave...lack of competition, lack of transparent pricing, etc. But to use people's lives as leverage to extract absurd amounts of money goes well beyond being immoral, it's just downright evil.
  - 8y ago
hogwild 8y ago
HCA is owned by Bill Frist's family. Dirty stuff.
gowld 8y ago
HCA is a massive criminal enterprise. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_Corporation_of_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_Corporation_of_Amer...
ta76567656 8y ago
Maybe they could change their name to "Hospital of the Temple Moneychangers"

jimmydddd 8y ago

What's strange is that many hospitals seem to legitimately be in financial trouble. You often hear about smaller hospitals not being able to make it financially, and being gobbled up by larger health networks. How can I be paying them $600 for an asprin, and other fake charges, and they still can't make any money?

FireBeyond 8y ago
Well, you'll notice on this bill in the article they've taken to charging "near retail" pricing for aspirin, and generic pricing for common drugs many of us will know the price of (still relatively outrageous, but $1/pill for aspirin, $10/pill for metoprolol). Why? Not out of the kindness of their hearts. They know that their name showing up with a bill for $500 for ASA is bad PR, so better to make those common things realistic, and pad their numbers elsewhere (like charging $19,500 for a $1,500 stent)...
bobmarley1 8y ago
Like in Education the glut of "Administrators" is certainly not helping.