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> If you load a React frontend, it'll, by default, deploy a service worker. What? > That is how the web works. The web 'experience' has stopped being about f

> If you load a React frontend, it'll, by default, deploy a service worker. What? > That is how the web works. The web 'experience' has stopped being about fetching static documents in a request/response fashion long ago. Consumers demand rich apps and interactivity, and it appears they're having it their way.

pmlnr 8y ago
> What? https://github.com/facebook/create-react-app/issues/2398 https://github.com/facebook/create-react-app/issues/2398 > Consumers demand rich apps and interactivity They really don't. That's an assumption without data. EDIT: see gov.uk. It works quite well without being fancy.
- wakeywakeywakey 8y ago
  > https://github.com/facebook/create-react-app/issues/2398 https://github.com/facebook/create-react-app/issues/2398 Equating 'create-react-app' package with React is silly. By that logic, I can wrap $library_of_your_choice in scaffolding and then blame it for the bloat I've chosen to add. > EDIT: see gov.uk. It works quite well without being fancy. We're at an impasse, since you countered my 'assumption without data' with your 'one-off anecdotal evidence'
htor 8y ago
> Consumers demand rich apps and interactivity, and it appears they're having it their way. no consumer ever demanded the web to be like an app. this is marketing baloney crap. stop treating humans browsing the web as targets for advertisement and consumerism.
- wakeywakeywakey 8y ago
  You are conflating what you wish were true with reality. For-profit companies typically build toward what they believe is in-demand and will be well-received by consumers. They perform market analysis to reinforce their intuition. Sometimes they get it right and their stock goes up. There isn't some elaborate plot on the part of Google, nor are 'they' purposely making something 'no consumer ever demanded.' When they do this, the endeavor fails and we call it a flop.
  - pmlnr 8y ago
    > what they believe is in-demand and will be well-received by consumers They never show an actually alternative version. A/B or bandit testing doesn't cover a comparison between, say, a nicely designed, very fast, non-tracking, but less interactive version, or a slow, but full-fledged "app". There used to be mobile versions accessible from desktop (twitter, facebook, etc), but not any more without faking the user agent. Those are significantly lighter, than desktop versions, but there is no way to actually compare the two for the generic public, and companies don't seem to be brave enough to really dig into these questions. This is the comparison I miss. Hence my wording: assumption.
  - tobylane 8y ago
    Google and Facebook want us on their website but we aren't their customers. The people paying their bills want our web experience mildly but tolerably bloated and tracked. You have a good point but Google and Facebook are the last people to use for proof.

pmlnr 8y ago

> What? https://github.com/facebook/create-react-app/issues/2398 https://github.com/facebook/create-react-app/issues/2398 > Consumers demand rich apps and interactivity They really don't. That's an assumption without data. EDIT: see gov.uk. It works quite well without being fancy.

wakeywakeywakey 8y ago
> https://github.com/facebook/create-react-app/issues/2398 https://github.com/facebook/create-react-app/issues/2398 Equating 'create-react-app' package with React is silly. By that logic, I can wrap $library_of_your_choice in scaffolding and then blame it for the bloat I've chosen to add. > EDIT: see gov.uk. It works quite well without being fancy. We're at an impasse, since you countered my 'assumption without data' with your 'one-off anecdotal evidence'

htor 8y ago

> Consumers demand rich apps and interactivity, and it appears they're having it their way. no consumer ever demanded the web to be like an app. this is marketing baloney crap. stop treating humans browsing the web as targets for advertisement and consumerism.

wakeywakeywakey 8y ago
You are conflating what you wish were true with reality. For-profit companies typically build toward what they believe is in-demand and will be well-received by consumers. They perform market analysis to reinforce their intuition. Sometimes they get it right and their stock goes up. There isn't some elaborate plot on the part of Google, nor are 'they' purposely making something 'no consumer ever demanded.' When they do this, the endeavor fails and we call it a flop.
- pmlnr 8y ago
  > what they believe is in-demand and will be well-received by consumers They never show an actually alternative version. A/B or bandit testing doesn't cover a comparison between, say, a nicely designed, very fast, non-tracking, but less interactive version, or a slow, but full-fledged "app". There used to be mobile versions accessible from desktop (twitter, facebook, etc), but not any more without faking the user agent. Those are significantly lighter, than desktop versions, but there is no way to actually compare the two for the generic public, and companies don't seem to be brave enough to really dig into these questions. This is the comparison I miss. Hence my wording: assumption.
- tobylane 8y ago
  Google and Facebook want us on their website but we aren't their customers. The people paying their bills want our web experience mildly but tolerably bloated and tracked. You have a good point but Google and Facebook are the last people to use for proof.