7 ms·

"the practice of associating the word "gay" with negative things is homophobia." In the USA...

chipotle_coyote 8y ago
Um, no. If I say "that movie is so gay" and you understand that as an insult, even a joking one, it's because you understand "gay" to be an insulting thing. That is homophobic. That's not a United States thing, it's a "this is literally how language works" thing.
- poisonarena 8y ago
  Well I don't hate gay people, and I think it is fine to say it.. Marica, Maricon, lo que sea parx
  - 836363837473 8y ago
    http://latindispatch.com/2017/04/15/escaping-a-homophobic-war-in-colombia/ http://latindispatch.com/2017/04/15/escaping-a-homophobic-wa...
  - axlprose 8y ago
    La verdad es que no creo que valga la pena tratar de explicarle a gente de paises privilegiados como trabajan las culturas de nuestros paises mas pobres, hermano. Es algo que des-afortunadamente no se puede explicar, si no que se tiene que vivir. Cuando uno experiencia tantas realidades duras del mundo viviendo en un lugar tan pobre y corrupto, con opciones limitadas, rapidamente se da uno cuenta en lo que verdaderamente mas importa, y digan lo que digan, las opiniones de otras personas, lo mas maldito que sean, de verdad no son causa para molestarnos tanto. Mientras tu y tu familia esten bien, y nada te esta previniendo vivir tu vida, siempre podemos confiar que todo esta bien. Pero eso lo sabemos porque emos visto y sobrevivido situaciones mucho mas peores, y solo la experiencia puede dar ese punto de vista. Si alguien no a sabido como es tener problemas mas grandes que lo que otra personas piensan del, por supuesto que les va a costar imaginarse como le gente puede tolerar ciertas cosas, aunque para nosotros sean pequenas. Por supuesto que siempre van haber personas que tienen malas intenciones cuando dicen palabras como "maricon", pero la diferencia entre nosotros y los de paises mas estables, es que a ellos no les vale la intencion de uno, solo ven a las propias palabras como que si usar esas partes del lenguaje fuera pecado. Como que no tomaran en cuenta la realidad que el lenguaje y las definiciones de palabras son construidas por la gente que las usa, y que cambian todo el tiempo. He vivido en los estados por muchos anos ya, y todavia no entiendo por que la cultura es asi, pero ni modo, asi es la vida.
    - evilturnip 8y ago
      I wholeheartedly agree with you; even having grown up in the US. I've come to realize the unimaginable hardships of people in other parts of the world. Only in a hyper-privileged country like the US can people find insignificant 'wars' to fight because they have not experienced the reality that most people historically and around the world face. I've always wondered if people here were to live in true hardship for just one month as truly deprived people did, then magically transported back to their privileged life, would they come to realize how truly petty their squabbling over language is? And perhaps even be grateful for their station. I'd even like to indulge a bit and say there's too much focus on how the system 'fails' while being blind to the unimaginable good it has produced by the very fact that they can sit in comfort and complain. Not enough gratitude for the suffering of others (contemporary and historical) that has brought them to this point.
      - stone-monkey 8y ago
        This is to be expected as people get closer to equality - the more low hanging fruit we pick, the smaller the gains will be. But does that mean we should stop shooting for equality as "close enough" because it's not on the same magnitude as ending slavery?
        axlprose 8y ago
        >does that mean we should stop shooting for equality as "close enough" the question is, which definition of "equality" are we even aiming for: equality of opportunity or equality of outcome? In reality, most people would likely agree with you that we should aim for "equality", but there are some pretty big fundamental differences about what people mean when they say that. Equal opportunity inherently means that we have to be ok with accepting less than equal outcomes if the process is the same for everybody; while equal outcomes mean we have to be ok with the possibility of favoring more opportunities for some people over others. These two interpretations of the same exact word are as close to mutually exclusive as you can get, so it's no surprise that there's so much tension around it. Doesn't mean people don't want "equality" though, it just means that the way they view the world led them to a different (equally defendable) interpretation of what it should mean.
  - lutorm 8y ago
    The question really is whether the gay people think it's fine, not whether you do. It's true that insults generally require intent, but that's different from being aware that other people find the expression insulting and continuing to use it while arguing that your use in particular isn't an insult.
- zenedge805 8y ago
  What is context and why doesn't it matter to you?
sidlls 8y ago
Everywhere.
836363837473 8y ago
So you think maricón is a compliment in Latin America?

Um, no. If I say "that movie is so gay" and you understand that as an insult, even a joking one, it's because you understand "gay" to be an insulting thing. That is homophobic. That's not a United States thing, it's a "this is literally how language works" thing.

poisonarena 8y ago
Well I don't hate gay people, and I think it is fine to say it.. Marica, Maricon, lo que sea parx
- 836363837473 8y ago
  http://latindispatch.com/2017/04/15/escaping-a-homophobic-war-in-colombia/ http://latindispatch.com/2017/04/15/escaping-a-homophobic-wa...
- axlprose 8y ago
  La verdad es que no creo que valga la pena tratar de explicarle a gente de paises privilegiados como trabajan las culturas de nuestros paises mas pobres, hermano. Es algo que des-afortunadamente no se puede explicar, si no que se tiene que vivir. Cuando uno experiencia tantas realidades duras del mundo viviendo en un lugar tan pobre y corrupto, con opciones limitadas, rapidamente se da uno cuenta en lo que verdaderamente mas importa, y digan lo que digan, las opiniones de otras personas, lo mas maldito que sean, de verdad no son causa para molestarnos tanto. Mientras tu y tu familia esten bien, y nada te esta previniendo vivir tu vida, siempre podemos confiar que todo esta bien. Pero eso lo sabemos porque emos visto y sobrevivido situaciones mucho mas peores, y solo la experiencia puede dar ese punto de vista. Si alguien no a sabido como es tener problemas mas grandes que lo que otra personas piensan del, por supuesto que les va a costar imaginarse como le gente puede tolerar ciertas cosas, aunque para nosotros sean pequenas. Por supuesto que siempre van haber personas que tienen malas intenciones cuando dicen palabras como "maricon", pero la diferencia entre nosotros y los de paises mas estables, es que a ellos no les vale la intencion de uno, solo ven a las propias palabras como que si usar esas partes del lenguaje fuera pecado. Como que no tomaran en cuenta la realidad que el lenguaje y las definiciones de palabras son construidas por la gente que las usa, y que cambian todo el tiempo. He vivido en los estados por muchos anos ya, y todavia no entiendo por que la cultura es asi, pero ni modo, asi es la vida.
  - evilturnip 8y ago
    I wholeheartedly agree with you; even having grown up in the US. I've come to realize the unimaginable hardships of people in other parts of the world. Only in a hyper-privileged country like the US can people find insignificant 'wars' to fight because they have not experienced the reality that most people historically and around the world face. I've always wondered if people here were to live in true hardship for just one month as truly deprived people did, then magically transported back to their privileged life, would they come to realize how truly petty their squabbling over language is? And perhaps even be grateful for their station. I'd even like to indulge a bit and say there's too much focus on how the system 'fails' while being blind to the unimaginable good it has produced by the very fact that they can sit in comfort and complain. Not enough gratitude for the suffering of others (contemporary and historical) that has brought them to this point.
    - stone-monkey 8y ago
      This is to be expected as people get closer to equality - the more low hanging fruit we pick, the smaller the gains will be. But does that mean we should stop shooting for equality as "close enough" because it's not on the same magnitude as ending slavery?
      - axlprose 8y ago
        >does that mean we should stop shooting for equality as "close enough" the question is, which definition of "equality" are we even aiming for: equality of opportunity or equality of outcome? In reality, most people would likely agree with you that we should aim for "equality", but there are some pretty big fundamental differences about what people mean when they say that. Equal opportunity inherently means that we have to be ok with accepting less than equal outcomes if the process is the same for everybody; while equal outcomes mean we have to be ok with the possibility of favoring more opportunities for some people over others. These two interpretations of the same exact word are as close to mutually exclusive as you can get, so it's no surprise that there's so much tension around it. Doesn't mean people don't want "equality" though, it just means that the way they view the world led them to a different (equally defendable) interpretation of what it should mean.
- lutorm 8y ago
  The question really is whether the gay people think it's fine, not whether you do. It's true that insults generally require intent, but that's different from being aware that other people find the expression insulting and continuing to use it while arguing that your use in particular isn't an insult.
zenedge805 8y ago
What is context and why doesn't it matter to you?

sidlls 8y ago

Everywhere.

836363837473 8y ago

So you think maricón is a compliment in Latin America?