7 ms·

I am conflicted about the use of racism in this context. Accent varies by ethnicity and ethnicity is a proxy for race, so they are disadvantaged by their race.

I am conflicted about the use of racism in this context. Accent varies by ethnicity and ethnicity is a proxy for race, so they are disadvantaged by their race. But if a student had a ta of the same race but no accent it would be fine. Or if the ta was white but had a bad accent the complaining would continue but it wouldn't be considered racism.

mgkimsal 8y ago
Don't be confused - it's not racist. It's "accentist" perhaps. I'm "white" and there've been plenty of "white" folks who I can't understand due to their accent. In some cases, I would not be able to work with them. It was nothing to do with 'race', everything to do with their ability to communicate in a way I could understand. If there are two people of equal technical ability, and one I (and the team) can understand without hesitation, and one who has trouble communicating, because of an accent, and they're both white, and we choose the one without the accent... are we racist? No.
- jldugger 8y ago
  Fortunately, EEOC considers national origin equally important to protect, and 'accentist' is likely adjacent enough that your lawyers will not support you going there.
  - mgkimsal 8y ago
    Someone from deep rural alabama vs someone from illinois - they're both from the same country. both 'white', both have same qualifications. one has a deep accent that is hard to understand, one doesn't. Please define how making a decision based on accent would be 'racist' (by any EEOC definition).
    - tptacek 8y ago
      Cursory research suggests that you would likely be liable for excluding an "ethnic group" if you refused to hire people with southern accent; "southerner" is an actual example I found in USG hiring guides.
      - mgkimsal 8y ago
        interesting, but not useful to my scenario. again, if you have 2 candidates that have equal background, skills, etc, you have to make a choice if you can only hire one. it seems that any decision you make could be challenged on some point. The 'alabama' accent might just be an accent they have, and they're not from alabama. But they still have an accent that is difficult for people to work with. If you have another candidate of equal experience and credentials, but who is easier to understand... do you hire the person who is harder to understand precisely because you might get sued otherwise?
flukus 8y ago
> Accent varies by ethnicity and ethnicity is a proxy for race Accent varies by location, not ethnicity. My Scottish ancestry does not in any way help my understand a thick Glaswegian accent but if we took a kid from China and bought them up in Glasgow they'd have the same accent as everyone else. Location isn't a great proxy for race.

mgkimsal 8y ago

Don't be confused - it's not racist. It's "accentist" perhaps. I'm "white" and there've been plenty of "white" folks who I can't understand due to their accent. In some cases, I would not be able to work with them. It was nothing to do with 'race', everything to do with their ability to communicate in a way I could understand. If there are two people of equal technical ability, and one I (and the team) can understand without hesitation, and one who has trouble communicating, because of an accent, and they're both white, and we choose the one without the accent... are we racist? No.

jldugger 8y ago
Fortunately, EEOC considers national origin equally important to protect, and 'accentist' is likely adjacent enough that your lawyers will not support you going there.
- mgkimsal 8y ago
  Someone from deep rural alabama vs someone from illinois - they're both from the same country. both 'white', both have same qualifications. one has a deep accent that is hard to understand, one doesn't. Please define how making a decision based on accent would be 'racist' (by any EEOC definition).
  - tptacek 8y ago
    Cursory research suggests that you would likely be liable for excluding an "ethnic group" if you refused to hire people with southern accent; "southerner" is an actual example I found in USG hiring guides.
    - mgkimsal 8y ago
      interesting, but not useful to my scenario. again, if you have 2 candidates that have equal background, skills, etc, you have to make a choice if you can only hire one. it seems that any decision you make could be challenged on some point. The 'alabama' accent might just be an accent they have, and they're not from alabama. But they still have an accent that is difficult for people to work with. If you have another candidate of equal experience and credentials, but who is easier to understand... do you hire the person who is harder to understand precisely because you might get sued otherwise?

flukus 8y ago

> Accent varies by ethnicity and ethnicity is a proxy for race Accent varies by location, not ethnicity. My Scottish ancestry does not in any way help my understand a thick Glaswegian accent but if we took a kid from China and bought them up in Glasgow they'd have the same accent as everyone else. Location isn't a great proxy for race.