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> the French Revolution decimal time The French were 99% successful with their decimals everywhere (everything except time) in 99% of all countries (everywhere

by seppel 8y ago

> the French Revolution decimal time The French were 99% successful with their decimals everywhere (everything except time) in 99% of all countries (everywhere except the US and some freak dictatorships). > The same kinds of "grand plans" are repeated in today's ambitious software engineering abstractions, which almost never survive contact with reality. Unless these "grand plans" just standardize and compromise the right things. Then they conquer the world (PC, USB, TCP, HTML, ...)

elvinyung 8y ago
Seeing Like A State actually goes into a tremendous amount of detail about what a monumentous effort it was to introduce decimal measures in France. Progress was slow and took generations. It is only in hindsight that it was successful. > The state could insist on the exclusive use of its units in the courts, in the state school system, and in such documents as property deeds, legal contracts, and tax codes. Outside these official spheres, the metric system made its way only very slowly. In spite of a decree for confiscating toise sticks in shops and replacing them with meter sticks, the populace continued to use the older system, often marking their meter sticks with the old measures. Even as late as 1828 the new measures were more a part of le pays legal than of le pays reel. As Chateaubriand remarked, "Whenever you meet a fellow who, instead of talking arpents, toises, and pieds, refers to hectares, meters, and centimeters, rest assured, the man is a prefect." I would imagine likewise for the other standards that you mentioned. And in a lot of ways they succeeded exactly because they weren't (thinking specifically about how HTTP/HTML succeeded because it was less comprehensive than, say, Xanadu).
- seppel 8y ago
  I don't disagree. But calling the "decimal time" a failure is just unfair, given that they rest of the program was a huge success getting rid of what we would call today "legacy" (of course in hindsight. When else?)
  - adrianratnapala 8y ago
    Was it a success though? Given how long it took to transition even in France, it sounds pretty expensive. Given that the rest of Europe wouldn't have bothered with it if the French hadn't gone on a crazy conquering spree, it sounds pretty expensive. Given that the imperial system actual works pretty fine for those who use it, and given that we are stuck with lots of discordant units of measure anyway, and new ones are being invented every day, it doesn't look like the gain was with the cost.

by seppel 8y ago

elvinyung 8y ago

Seeing Like A State actually goes into a tremendous amount of detail about what a monumentous effort it was to introduce decimal measures in France. Progress was slow and took generations. It is only in hindsight that it was successful. > The state could insist on the exclusive use of its units in the courts, in the state school system, and in such documents as property deeds, legal contracts, and tax codes. Outside these official spheres, the metric system made its way only very slowly. In spite of a decree for confiscating toise sticks in shops and replacing them with meter sticks, the populace continued to use the older system, often marking their meter sticks with the old measures. Even as late as 1828 the new measures were more a part of le pays legal than of le pays reel. As Chateaubriand remarked, "Whenever you meet a fellow who, instead of talking arpents, toises, and pieds, refers to hectares, meters, and centimeters, rest assured, the man is a prefect." I would imagine likewise for the other standards that you mentioned. And in a lot of ways they succeeded exactly because they weren't (thinking specifically about how HTTP/HTML succeeded because it was less comprehensive than, say, Xanadu).

seppel 8y ago
I don't disagree. But calling the "decimal time" a failure is just unfair, given that they rest of the program was a huge success getting rid of what we would call today "legacy" (of course in hindsight. When else?)
- adrianratnapala 8y ago
  Was it a success though? Given how long it took to transition even in France, it sounds pretty expensive. Given that the rest of Europe wouldn't have bothered with it if the French hadn't gone on a crazy conquering spree, it sounds pretty expensive. Given that the imperial system actual works pretty fine for those who use it, and given that we are stuck with lots of discordant units of measure anyway, and new ones are being invented every day, it doesn't look like the gain was with the cost.