3 ms·

High ISP competition would be preferable. But that's not going to be possible anytime soon until all state monopolies are removed (by law). Until then, net neut

by mtgx 8y ago

High ISP competition would be preferable. But that's not going to be possible anytime soon until all state monopolies are removed (by law). Until then, net neutrality is needed to keep the internet fair in a market full of local monopolies/national oligopolies hell-bent on squeezing as much money as possible from their customers - even with illegal tactics like adding hidden charges to their bills. But even if there was a highly competitive ISP market, some ground rules would still be needed to ensure that the large players don't mess with the small players somehow, just maybe not as strict.

emodendroket 8y ago
> But that's not going to be possible anytime soon until all state monopolies are removed (by law). With perfect competition you still have the problem that a large amount of capital investment is required (making it impractical to challenge established companies) and ISPs from a pure profit motive have little incentive to serve less densely populated areas. The theory behind granting the monopoly is that in exchange they have to serve everyone and submit to more vigorous regulation.
- pdonis 8y ago
  > a large amount of capital investment is required (making it impractical to challenge established companies) Not if the capital investment is made, as it should be, by individual localities who want to own Internet infrastructure, or at least the capital intensive portion of it, that they then lease to ISPs. But ISPs sue localities who try this.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    I mean, why not go a step further and just run it as a municipal service at that point? Don't really see the point to adding a middleman to skim money off the top when the taxpayers have done the hard part for them.
    - pdonis 8y ago
      > why not go a step further and just run it as a municipal service at that point? If you mean, run the basic fiber (or whatever broadband hardware the municipality puts in) bandwidth supply as a municipal service, and let competing service providers rent bandwidth, that is exactly what various municipalities have tried (and been sued for by the big ISPs). If you mean, have the municipality be an actual ISP, I think some have tried that (and been sued by the big ISPs); but I'm not that actual ISP services are a natural municipal service the way the basic high speed hardware/right of way is.

by mtgx 8y ago

emodendroket 8y ago

> But that's not going to be possible anytime soon until all state monopolies are removed (by law). With perfect competition you still have the problem that a large amount of capital investment is required (making it impractical to challenge established companies) and ISPs from a pure profit motive have little incentive to serve less densely populated areas. The theory behind granting the monopoly is that in exchange they have to serve everyone and submit to more vigorous regulation.

pdonis 8y ago
> a large amount of capital investment is required (making it impractical to challenge established companies) Not if the capital investment is made, as it should be, by individual localities who want to own Internet infrastructure, or at least the capital intensive portion of it, that they then lease to ISPs. But ISPs sue localities who try this.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  I mean, why not go a step further and just run it as a municipal service at that point? Don't really see the point to adding a middleman to skim money off the top when the taxpayers have done the hard part for them.
  - pdonis 8y ago
    > why not go a step further and just run it as a municipal service at that point? If you mean, run the basic fiber (or whatever broadband hardware the municipality puts in) bandwidth supply as a municipal service, and let competing service providers rent bandwidth, that is exactly what various municipalities have tried (and been sued for by the big ISPs). If you mean, have the municipality be an actual ISP, I think some have tried that (and been sued by the big ISPs); but I'm not that actual ISP services are a natural municipal service the way the basic high speed hardware/right of way is.