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The NSA Continues to Violate Americans' Internet Privacy Rights

135 points by grammers 8y ago

some_account 8y ago
I made it to the second paragraph. Anyone who believes the NSA can be controlled must also believe in the things they were told in school how the world works. That is, 100% "how it could work in theory". In reality, the world is controlled by power hungry psychopaths and they are concentrated in large amounts at the top of these organizations.
- donttrack 8y ago
  Negative thoughts detected! Your comment is now being run through a text pattern recognizer to tie it up with your Facebook and your email account. God forbid you might have a stray creative thought somewhere ever, that may threaten our precious democracies. Have a nice life.
- dangero 8y ago
  You're probably right, but do you not agree that declaring PRISM illegal would be a helpful step?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - narag 8y ago
    I believe he's trying to say that it's just impossible. In movies heroes uncover government conspiracies and culprits get handcuffed. In real world nothing happened. Snowden is now a cultural reference for comedy: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6663582/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6663582/
    - yesenadam 8y ago
      In the real world, heroes get handcuffed - see the excellent documentary about US government whistleblowers Silenced (2014)
    - BLKNSLVR 8y ago
      In the real world, whistleblowers and their lawyers get prosecuted for revealing illegal activities the government was conducting: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-28/australian-spys-lawyer-threatened-with-jail-over-book/10155892 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-28/australian-spys-lawyer...
  - crazynick4 8y ago
    Yes but what are the chances of that happening when it's a case involving a man accused of supporting terrorists? This is exactly the purpose of the program, so there won't be much of an argument there. If anything this will set a precedent and cement over the program's 'usefulness'. The question is why did they have to wait for the program to actually catch someone supporting terrorism before taking it to court?
- yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
  Well, guess that's it; we might as well give up then.
danjoc 8y ago
>President Trump, who as a candidate called for expanded spying on Americans. I may not agree with Trump on it, but least he was honest about his support for it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SRCOouw5I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SRCOouw5I
nimbius 8y ago
In other news, Americans continue to fight this. https://prism-break.org https://prism-break.org
- crazynick4 8y ago
  They must have been doing a great job because 'this site can’t be reached'.
geggam 8y ago
Interesting to me that the downvoted comments on this story are the ones discussing how the NSA is violating its charter and the constitution. Used to be cryptotechs in the navy listening to foreign countries had to destroy media if they accidentally recored a US citizen Also used to be the majority of nerds were really against this sort of invasive illegal intrusions Now the NSA intentionally spies on citizens and the nerds are supporting them. How far the NSA and the nerd herd have fallen... its really disappointing
- intralizee 8y ago
  I didn’t bother looking at the comments but in this modern age, people may be confused by fake accounts and where the purpose is confusing popular opinion. Fake accounts without people contributing thought but some algorithms faking discussion with swaying to a direction of support.
- jtr_47 8y ago
  IT's possible they work for the NSA. Down voting to suppress the actual number of people that really understand what is happening to the people of the USA. The so called "news media," is supposed to be our eyes and ears.. but nothing is being said or written by them about this. It's a shame. Looks like we are in a upward swing to fascism.
- rosser 8y ago
  I wouldn't, personally, characterize those comments as "discussing" how the NSA is doing those things, so much as their authors throwing up their hands, and being all, "WELP!" about that behavior. "Nothing can be done! They're EEEEEVIL! If you think otherwise, then you're dumb too." What kind of discussion is a comment like that likely to engender? Generally not very substantive, in my experience, and I've been (IMO rightly) asked by the moderators not to engage in that style of shallow discourse, despite one of my comments to that effect being among my highest-voted ever. Popularity and/or accuracy don't entail depth, and there's a pretty clear bias on HN towards encouraging the latter.
oneplane 8y ago
Well, it's very annoying that they are violating non-american internet privacy rights as well. Just because one club of people said it's okay doesn't mean we have to agree to it.
- dgzl 8y ago
  Rights in the US are granted not by saying "you have rights" but by saying "the government can't do xyz". The Constitution only applies to US citizens.
  - late2part 8y ago
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. - the constitution. However, the Declaration of Independence says: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, I've personally interpreted this as meaning that we USA folks believe these rights should apply to everyone, but we're only taking responsibility for our own folks, in general. We'd like to help others, and can, but we don't guarantee it. Not sure that's sound, but that's my take.
    - oneplane 8y ago
      I think having a set of rules or ideas to apply to everyone, but foremost start with taking responsibility for those who live under the governance of those rules makes a whole lot more sense than "screw everyone who is not us".
      - boomboomsubban 8y ago
        As nice as that sounds, the Constitution allowing slavery suggests "screw everyone who is not us" is more accurate.
megamindbrian2 8y ago
Good. Privacy isn't a right.
- sowbug 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut
- acct1771 8y ago
  Who do I point my pitchfork at to secure the privilege, then?
  - megamindbrian2 8y ago
    Excellent. The sky I guess.
- Totoradio 8y ago
  The UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights disagrees: > Article 12. > No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
  - megamindbrian2 8y ago
    The UN also states access to the internet is a human right but Zuckerberg only gives Africa free internet, why do I still have to pay for it?
    - boomboomsubban 8y ago
      You want to visit sites that aren't Facebook, and you already gave them your data for free.
stareatgoats 8y ago
From the comments under the article: > "Also, the next time an NSA spokesman tries to sugarcoat this issue, let's get someone, anyone, to ask why the GCHQ (in the U.K.) is allowed to spy on Americans and then simply pass that along to U.S. intelligence. U.S. spooks think they are being clever by doing it this way." What evidence is there that this is going on? and on what scale? If it is standard operation then the whole 'not spying on our own citizens' would seem to be a hollow truth in all countries that partake in such intelligence exchange. I.e. the spying is simply done by a partner country, otherwise no difference.
- Azrathud 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement The code name for the data collection/sharing project is "Tempora" and was unveiled in the Snowden leaks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secre...

135 points by grammers 8y ago

I made it to the second paragraph. Anyone who believes the NSA can be controlled must also believe in the things they were told in school how the world works. That is, 100% "how it could work in theory". In reality, the world is controlled by power hungry psychopaths and they are concentrated in large amounts at the top of these organizations.

donttrack 8y ago
Negative thoughts detected! Your comment is now being run through a text pattern recognizer to tie it up with your Facebook and your email account. God forbid you might have a stray creative thought somewhere ever, that may threaten our precious democracies. Have a nice life.
dangero 8y ago
You're probably right, but do you not agree that declaring PRISM illegal would be a helpful step?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- narag 8y ago
  I believe he's trying to say that it's just impossible. In movies heroes uncover government conspiracies and culprits get handcuffed. In real world nothing happened. Snowden is now a cultural reference for comedy: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6663582/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6663582/
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    In the real world, heroes get handcuffed - see the excellent documentary about US government whistleblowers Silenced (2014)
  - BLKNSLVR 8y ago
    In the real world, whistleblowers and their lawyers get prosecuted for revealing illegal activities the government was conducting: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-28/australian-spys-lawyer-threatened-with-jail-over-book/10155892 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-28/australian-spys-lawyer...
- crazynick4 8y ago
  Yes but what are the chances of that happening when it's a case involving a man accused of supporting terrorists? This is exactly the purpose of the program, so there won't be much of an argument there. If anything this will set a precedent and cement over the program's 'usefulness'. The question is why did they have to wait for the program to actually catch someone supporting terrorism before taking it to court?
yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
Well, guess that's it; we might as well give up then.

danjoc 8y ago

>President Trump, who as a candidate called for expanded spying on Americans. I may not agree with Trump on it, but least he was honest about his support for it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SRCOouw5I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SRCOouw5I

nimbius 8y ago

In other news, Americans continue to fight this. https://prism-break.org https://prism-break.org

crazynick4 8y ago
They must have been doing a great job because 'this site can’t be reached'.

geggam 8y ago

Interesting to me that the downvoted comments on this story are the ones discussing how the NSA is violating its charter and the constitution. Used to be cryptotechs in the navy listening to foreign countries had to destroy media if they accidentally recored a US citizen Also used to be the majority of nerds were really against this sort of invasive illegal intrusions Now the NSA intentionally spies on citizens and the nerds are supporting them. How far the NSA and the nerd herd have fallen... its really disappointing

intralizee 8y ago
I didn’t bother looking at the comments but in this modern age, people may be confused by fake accounts and where the purpose is confusing popular opinion. Fake accounts without people contributing thought but some algorithms faking discussion with swaying to a direction of support.
jtr_47 8y ago
IT's possible they work for the NSA. Down voting to suppress the actual number of people that really understand what is happening to the people of the USA. The so called "news media," is supposed to be our eyes and ears.. but nothing is being said or written by them about this. It's a shame. Looks like we are in a upward swing to fascism.
rosser 8y ago
I wouldn't, personally, characterize those comments as "discussing" how the NSA is doing those things, so much as their authors throwing up their hands, and being all, "WELP!" about that behavior. "Nothing can be done! They're EEEEEVIL! If you think otherwise, then you're dumb too." What kind of discussion is a comment like that likely to engender? Generally not very substantive, in my experience, and I've been (IMO rightly) asked by the moderators not to engage in that style of shallow discourse, despite one of my comments to that effect being among my highest-voted ever. Popularity and/or accuracy don't entail depth, and there's a pretty clear bias on HN towards encouraging the latter.

oneplane 8y ago

Well, it's very annoying that they are violating non-american internet privacy rights as well. Just because one club of people said it's okay doesn't mean we have to agree to it.

dgzl 8y ago
Rights in the US are granted not by saying "you have rights" but by saying "the government can't do xyz". The Constitution only applies to US citizens.
- late2part 8y ago
  We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. - the constitution. However, the Declaration of Independence says: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, I've personally interpreted this as meaning that we USA folks believe these rights should apply to everyone, but we're only taking responsibility for our own folks, in general. We'd like to help others, and can, but we don't guarantee it. Not sure that's sound, but that's my take.
  - oneplane 8y ago
    I think having a set of rules or ideas to apply to everyone, but foremost start with taking responsibility for those who live under the governance of those rules makes a whole lot more sense than "screw everyone who is not us".
    - boomboomsubban 8y ago
      As nice as that sounds, the Constitution allowing slavery suggests "screw everyone who is not us" is more accurate.

megamindbrian2 8y ago

Good. Privacy isn't a right.

sowbug 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut
acct1771 8y ago
Who do I point my pitchfork at to secure the privilege, then?
- megamindbrian2 8y ago
  Excellent. The sky I guess.
Totoradio 8y ago
The UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights disagrees: > Article 12. > No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
- megamindbrian2 8y ago
  The UN also states access to the internet is a human right but Zuckerberg only gives Africa free internet, why do I still have to pay for it?
  - boomboomsubban 8y ago
    You want to visit sites that aren't Facebook, and you already gave them your data for free.

stareatgoats 8y ago

From the comments under the article: > "Also, the next time an NSA spokesman tries to sugarcoat this issue, let's get someone, anyone, to ask why the GCHQ (in the U.K.) is allowed to spy on Americans and then simply pass that along to U.S. intelligence. U.S. spooks think they are being clever by doing it this way." What evidence is there that this is going on? and on what scale? If it is standard operation then the whole 'not spying on our own citizens' would seem to be a hollow truth in all countries that partake in such intelligence exchange. I.e. the spying is simply done by a partner country, otherwise no difference.

Azrathud 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement The code name for the data collection/sharing project is "Tempora" and was unveiled in the Snowden leaks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secre...