4 ms·

The way he drives his workers is very different than a common orthodoxy I see around here: He demands 12 hour days, and he gets more efficiency than other cont

by mindB 8y ago

The way he drives his workers is very different than a common orthodoxy I see around here: He demands 12 hour days, and he gets more efficiency than other contractors; definitely different than the view that there's some optimum level of work <=40 hours/week after which returns diminish so much as to not be worth it. Maybe the game industry's perpetual crunch time isn't as insane from a strictly financial perspective as it seems at first blush?

Avshalom 8y ago
"He" appears to be fast because he realized that throwing as many bodies at the problem as he can find actually pays off due to the contract structure. Not necessarily because he's making either efficient or healthy use of those bodies. How much guaranteed extra money does EA make for shipping Madden a day earlier?
- colotj 8y ago
  Absolutely. This article speaks to the immense advantage of a 3 or 4 decade player in local markets / governments. Contracts with $200,000/day early completion bonuses are not handed out to everyone. While they may be "hard bid" by dozens of contractors, preferential treatment is accorded to those with relationships. If you're that guy AND you landed the contract, your decision to raid manpower from other local players is as straightforward as they come.
- mindB 8y ago
  I think you're probably right. The impressive thing here and the competitive advantage is probably the organizational ability and supervisional manpower to make effective use of extra manpower.
ggm 8y ago
The <= 40 thing wasn't some random feel-good. Time and Motion and Operations Research people looked at what happened in wartime rush-rush production, and the evidence they collected was (from what i read) pretty good that its a law of diminishing returns followed by a downturn in safety and quality. My only cite is indirect: Angus Calder "the people's war" but I would be surprised if this isn't well documented in the real literature. Also, some of the outcomes very quickly become externalities: nobody notices the bodge job until 5+ years later, and people die young of non-specific stress related diseases which don't get attributed to work.
- QuercusMax 8y ago
  The 40-hour thing was for assembly-line type work if I'm not mistaken. It's entirely possible for construction-type work where specialized workers have to take turns (backhoe guy digs a hole, workers prep with hand tools, concrete is poured from cement mixer and then smoothed out with hand tools, lather, rinse, repeat), that there's enough built-in downtime / break time between steps that workers can handle longer shifts without reduced productivity.
  - taneq 8y ago
    > there's enough built-in downtime / break time between steps that workers can handle longer shifts without reduced productivity. In the mining industry it's referred to as 'mine time'. The majority of your 12-hour day is spent waiting for other necessary things (competing work, isolations, hazard analysis, approvals) to happen so a 20-minute job can take three hours.
- mindB 8y ago
  That's interesting that the 40 hour thing came from OR. Will have to look into that. I'm working on my MS in OR right now. I had always just thought that it was based on the undeniable fact that work just kind of sucks after 40 hours in a week.
  - ggm 8y ago
    I'm probably over-claiming. Taylorism was around before OR and I suspect most production/work studies were in Taylorism and time-and-motion not OR. The references to OR in Angus Calders book are PMS Blackett and Solly Zuckerman which are more directly related to war/strategy outcomes than production side and labour efficiency. I still recommend reading Calder, but I would take what I said with a pinch of salt. https://books.google.com.au/books?id=aCRuuAXx-WkC&pg=PA397&lpg=PA397&dq=operations+research+overtime+angus+calder&source=bl&ots=uyA9EFAKXj&sig=mlJvNqtPADQnPXhYhRmZsuodVHc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhtJfSpozdAhVbMt4KHV-MBo4Q6AEwA3oECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=operational%20research&f=false https://books.google.com.au/books?id=aCRuuAXx-WkC&pg=PA397&l...
toomanybeersies 8y ago
The argument for <40 hours weeks is for white collar workers. For construction and manufacturing work, the longer the hours, the more work will get done. There is an argument to be made for diminishing returns, but it's a lot less than for office jobs.

by mindB 8y ago

Avshalom 8y ago

"He" appears to be fast because he realized that throwing as many bodies at the problem as he can find actually pays off due to the contract structure. Not necessarily because he's making either efficient or healthy use of those bodies. How much guaranteed extra money does EA make for shipping Madden a day earlier?

colotj 8y ago
Absolutely. This article speaks to the immense advantage of a 3 or 4 decade player in local markets / governments. Contracts with $200,000/day early completion bonuses are not handed out to everyone. While they may be "hard bid" by dozens of contractors, preferential treatment is accorded to those with relationships. If you're that guy AND you landed the contract, your decision to raid manpower from other local players is as straightforward as they come.
mindB 8y ago
I think you're probably right. The impressive thing here and the competitive advantage is probably the organizational ability and supervisional manpower to make effective use of extra manpower.

ggm 8y ago

The <= 40 thing wasn't some random feel-good. Time and Motion and Operations Research people looked at what happened in wartime rush-rush production, and the evidence they collected was (from what i read) pretty good that its a law of diminishing returns followed by a downturn in safety and quality. My only cite is indirect: Angus Calder "the people's war" but I would be surprised if this isn't well documented in the real literature. Also, some of the outcomes very quickly become externalities: nobody notices the bodge job until 5+ years later, and people die young of non-specific stress related diseases which don't get attributed to work.

QuercusMax 8y ago
The 40-hour thing was for assembly-line type work if I'm not mistaken. It's entirely possible for construction-type work where specialized workers have to take turns (backhoe guy digs a hole, workers prep with hand tools, concrete is poured from cement mixer and then smoothed out with hand tools, lather, rinse, repeat), that there's enough built-in downtime / break time between steps that workers can handle longer shifts without reduced productivity.
- taneq 8y ago
  > there's enough built-in downtime / break time between steps that workers can handle longer shifts without reduced productivity. In the mining industry it's referred to as 'mine time'. The majority of your 12-hour day is spent waiting for other necessary things (competing work, isolations, hazard analysis, approvals) to happen so a 20-minute job can take three hours.
mindB 8y ago
That's interesting that the 40 hour thing came from OR. Will have to look into that. I'm working on my MS in OR right now. I had always just thought that it was based on the undeniable fact that work just kind of sucks after 40 hours in a week.
- ggm 8y ago
  I'm probably over-claiming. Taylorism was around before OR and I suspect most production/work studies were in Taylorism and time-and-motion not OR. The references to OR in Angus Calders book are PMS Blackett and Solly Zuckerman which are more directly related to war/strategy outcomes than production side and labour efficiency. I still recommend reading Calder, but I would take what I said with a pinch of salt. https://books.google.com.au/books?id=aCRuuAXx-WkC&pg=PA397&lpg=PA397&dq=operations+research+overtime+angus+calder&source=bl&ots=uyA9EFAKXj&sig=mlJvNqtPADQnPXhYhRmZsuodVHc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhtJfSpozdAhVbMt4KHV-MBo4Q6AEwA3oECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=operational%20research&f=false https://books.google.com.au/books?id=aCRuuAXx-WkC&pg=PA397&l...

toomanybeersies 8y ago

The argument for <40 hours weeks is for white collar workers. For construction and manufacturing work, the longer the hours, the more work will get done. There is an argument to be made for diminishing returns, but it's a lot less than for office jobs.