3 ms·

Well if I want to open a coffee shop and hire highschool students at $8/hr, as an employer I should be able to do that. But if someone who requires to provide f

Well if I want to open a coffee shop and hire highschool students at $8/hr, as an employer I should be able to do that. But if someone who requires to provide for a family and needs $20/hr is willing to work for $8/hr at my coffee shop, that is their fault, not mine.

Sharlin 8y ago
And how much choice do you think they have?
- x0AC77B2 8y ago
  They are clearly desperate for work. Bettering yourself via education at a trade school, or University is not difficult. But if you got a degree in Psychology and now work at a coffee shop for $8/hr to support a family, you put yourself in that situation.
  - Sharlin 8y ago
    I... I don't even. This demonstrates such a fundamental disconnect from the reality of people living on subsistence level that it's not even funny.
CapacitorSet 8y ago
How is the fault for low wages on the worker, and not the employer? Why is the employer granted the freedom to push unlivable wages, rather than the worker being granted the right to be paid livable wages?
- closeparen 8y ago
  Starting from the proposition that the worker has a right to a decent living, a minimum wage statue is a terrible way to get there: the employer always has the freedom to "push" no work at all and deploy his capital elsewhere, leaving everyone strictly worse off. As the gig economy companies did just a few years ago, when they didn't exist. It's much cleaner to tax the employer class's excess income, however it's earned, and redistribute it to "gross up" the worker class to whatever the minimum wage would be. Then employers don't have the option of shifting their investment to automation, self-service, less labor-intensive industries, etc. to avoid the concession.
  - AstralStorm 8y ago
    Unfortunately, the tax does not work in a global economy, where the bigger employers can vote with their feet and employees cannot. (minimal wage doesn't work either for the same reason) Both measures impact smaller employers more too and cause problems for local employers but not global ones. The good solution would be to either tax local revenue of global companies, hunt the dodges and tariff the imported products (again problematic) as well as imported labour. This stinks of mercantilism of course and could have higher order effects.
msiyer 8y ago
The logic that substantiated slavery, genocides, wars... had the same soul your logic has - greed. Greed is never good for the society. Do not forget that we are social animals.

Sharlin 8y ago

And how much choice do you think they have?

x0AC77B2 8y ago
They are clearly desperate for work. Bettering yourself via education at a trade school, or University is not difficult. But if you got a degree in Psychology and now work at a coffee shop for $8/hr to support a family, you put yourself in that situation.
- Sharlin 8y ago
  I... I don't even. This demonstrates such a fundamental disconnect from the reality of people living on subsistence level that it's not even funny.

CapacitorSet 8y ago

How is the fault for low wages on the worker, and not the employer? Why is the employer granted the freedom to push unlivable wages, rather than the worker being granted the right to be paid livable wages?

closeparen 8y ago
Starting from the proposition that the worker has a right to a decent living, a minimum wage statue is a terrible way to get there: the employer always has the freedom to "push" no work at all and deploy his capital elsewhere, leaving everyone strictly worse off. As the gig economy companies did just a few years ago, when they didn't exist. It's much cleaner to tax the employer class's excess income, however it's earned, and redistribute it to "gross up" the worker class to whatever the minimum wage would be. Then employers don't have the option of shifting their investment to automation, self-service, less labor-intensive industries, etc. to avoid the concession.
- AstralStorm 8y ago
  Unfortunately, the tax does not work in a global economy, where the bigger employers can vote with their feet and employees cannot. (minimal wage doesn't work either for the same reason) Both measures impact smaller employers more too and cause problems for local employers but not global ones. The good solution would be to either tax local revenue of global companies, hunt the dodges and tariff the imported products (again problematic) as well as imported labour. This stinks of mercantilism of course and could have higher order effects.

msiyer 8y ago

The logic that substantiated slavery, genocides, wars... had the same soul your logic has - greed. Greed is never good for the society. Do not forget that we are social animals.