4 ms·

Why would you expect any different in 2018? Now that low hanging economic fruit has been picked, and almost all land has been found and developed to some level

Why would you expect any different in 2018? Now that low hanging economic fruit has been picked, and almost all land has been found and developed to some level, it's technology that drives growth. Technology is developed by a small minority of the population with special skills and high intelligence. The median human is not developing technology, and therefore not significantly contributing to growth. You can only capture some amount of the new value that you are creating. EDIT - why the downvotes? This isn't a political statement, it's an observation.

prolikewh0a 8y ago
>The median human is not developing technology, and therefore not significantly contributing to growth. Those jobs still need to be done. Someone needs to stock your shelves, someone still needs to pick up your garbage, someone still needs to flip your burgers.
- zxcvvcxz 8y ago
  Sure. But why should the wages of these tasks grow, when they are not providing more or differentiated value as opposed to say 40 years ago?
  - jstarfish 8y ago
    To keep the knives of the poor away from your throat.
    - zxcvvcxz 8y ago
      Real mature and practical there buddy. What's more likely is the continued political push towards socialism that we're seeing in North America. Whether or not it will alleviate the situation as I see it, I can't say.
      - jnbiche 8y ago
        > Real mature and practical there buddy. You think that's a joke? Or trolling? History says no, time and time again.
      - oblio 8y ago
        What push for socialism?!? You're the only developed country without universal healthcare (!). And don't drag Canada in with your crazy politics (I'm not even Canadian :) ).
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    Because eventually you'll run out of consumers as people pay nearly their full paycheck for absolutely necessities like shelter.
    - zxcvvcxz 8y ago
      I've heard of this theory before but never seen an example of it happening. Has this ever happened in any country's history? What was the corrective result thereafter?
      - AstralStorm 8y ago
        It never happened so far. What did happen is consumer goods crises where people couldn't afford necessities like food. War and revolutions followed. High rent prices with no recourse can cause the same result. Examples: Germany after WW1, Russian bolshevik revolution. Probably a few more.
  - aerotwelve 8y ago
    Well, at an absolute bare minimum, wages for these jobs should grow to compensate for changes in the cost of living, otherwise they are effectively getting pay cuts every year. Edit: more simply, anyone working full time in a first world country should not be living in poverty. Once you lose this, you begin falling down the path towards losing "first world country" status.
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      > otherwise they are effectively getting pay cuts every year That's the point. With automation, there are a) more unskilled workers available for hire, and their work is less and less valuable because b) it's going to be automated soon as well and c) because of governmental regulations that make it increasingly hard to employ people in general and make automation even more attractive. > Edit: more simply, anyone working full time in a first world country should not be living in poverty. They are free to learn new skills. If they can't because of mental of physical problems, there are options available today.
- maxwell 8y ago
  These are bad examples, because all have functional robotic replacements already in the later stages of development or early production. Better ones: Someone needs to educate your kids, someone still needs to provide physical therapy after your accident, someone still needs to defend you in court.
- nomel 8y ago
  > Someone needs to stock your shelves Anyone can do it, and Amazon disagrees. The world used to be inefficient, run on paper and phone calls. More and more is being outsourced to tech or foreign soil so less and lis as remains for The “guy that can stick shelves” to do. We’re left with service or simple labor, which anyone can do, so prices will fall. It shouldn’t be surprising that the more intelligent always have and always will continue to be more successful and drive discovery and innovation. We actually used to hold these people (scientists, inventors, philosophers, writers, etc) in a high regard. Now that the bar is lower and entry is easier (tech), thenperspective seems to have changed. What we need now is a balance or redistribution since it’s becoming impossible for those that didn’t win the genetic lottery to prosper. But we need to stay realistic and honest, those with higher intelligence more knowledge (degrees or experience) are preospering and those that don’t aren’t. I think grandparents comment was distasteful, but let’s talk about the concepts rather than downvote.
  - nomel 8y ago
    *apologies for the typos and grammar. I wrote this quickly before catching a bus and didn’t have a chance to reread, now it’s too late to edit.
toomuchtodo 8y ago
Historically, before the industrial revolution, business owners would be dragged into the streets and beaten to death when inequality reached a tipping point. Failing to understand history forebodes repeating it.
- zxcvvcxz 8y ago
  Somehow I seriously doubt that's where we're headed. Perhaps people can go to the polls and write their representatives instead. We have a lack of growth and economic value added for the majority of the population. This was my original observation. I'm not saying I know what's next or what should be done.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    There’s a quote I think is really profound: “A society is three meals away from revolution.” You seriously doubt that’s where things are headed, and yet Venezuela is in that phase currently. Things are stable until they’re not. It is a result of leaving a populace with no other recourse.
    - maxwell 8y ago
      If inequality continues to grow, it seems like eventually an economic crisis will trigger those today called antifa thugs, alt-right nazis, inner city gangmembers, intellectual jihadis, violent incels, etc. to unify against the thousand rich guys who own everything (and so nothing). If they retreat to islands and citadels, perhaps instead retribution will be taken against the perceived proxies of the tech tyrants who ate the world, the tech workers.
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        > Or they'll live in citadels and instead retribution will be taken against the perceived proxies of the tech tyrants, the tech workers. Like Google busses being blocked in SF and Apple vans having their windows shot out on the highway? We’re closer to your prediction than you think.

prolikewh0a 8y ago

>The median human is not developing technology, and therefore not significantly contributing to growth. Those jobs still need to be done. Someone needs to stock your shelves, someone still needs to pick up your garbage, someone still needs to flip your burgers.

zxcvvcxz 8y ago
Sure. But why should the wages of these tasks grow, when they are not providing more or differentiated value as opposed to say 40 years ago?
- jstarfish 8y ago
  To keep the knives of the poor away from your throat.
  - zxcvvcxz 8y ago
    Real mature and practical there buddy. What's more likely is the continued political push towards socialism that we're seeing in North America. Whether or not it will alleviate the situation as I see it, I can't say.
    - jnbiche 8y ago
      > Real mature and practical there buddy. You think that's a joke? Or trolling? History says no, time and time again.
    - oblio 8y ago
      What push for socialism?!? You're the only developed country without universal healthcare (!). And don't drag Canada in with your crazy politics (I'm not even Canadian :) ).
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  Because eventually you'll run out of consumers as people pay nearly their full paycheck for absolutely necessities like shelter.
  - zxcvvcxz 8y ago
    I've heard of this theory before but never seen an example of it happening. Has this ever happened in any country's history? What was the corrective result thereafter?
    - AstralStorm 8y ago
      It never happened so far. What did happen is consumer goods crises where people couldn't afford necessities like food. War and revolutions followed. High rent prices with no recourse can cause the same result. Examples: Germany after WW1, Russian bolshevik revolution. Probably a few more.
- aerotwelve 8y ago
  Well, at an absolute bare minimum, wages for these jobs should grow to compensate for changes in the cost of living, otherwise they are effectively getting pay cuts every year. Edit: more simply, anyone working full time in a first world country should not be living in poverty. Once you lose this, you begin falling down the path towards losing "first world country" status.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    > otherwise they are effectively getting pay cuts every year That's the point. With automation, there are a) more unskilled workers available for hire, and their work is less and less valuable because b) it's going to be automated soon as well and c) because of governmental regulations that make it increasingly hard to employ people in general and make automation even more attractive. > Edit: more simply, anyone working full time in a first world country should not be living in poverty. They are free to learn new skills. If they can't because of mental of physical problems, there are options available today.
maxwell 8y ago
These are bad examples, because all have functional robotic replacements already in the later stages of development or early production. Better ones: Someone needs to educate your kids, someone still needs to provide physical therapy after your accident, someone still needs to defend you in court.
nomel 8y ago
> Someone needs to stock your shelves Anyone can do it, and Amazon disagrees. The world used to be inefficient, run on paper and phone calls. More and more is being outsourced to tech or foreign soil so less and lis as remains for The “guy that can stick shelves” to do. We’re left with service or simple labor, which anyone can do, so prices will fall. It shouldn’t be surprising that the more intelligent always have and always will continue to be more successful and drive discovery and innovation. We actually used to hold these people (scientists, inventors, philosophers, writers, etc) in a high regard. Now that the bar is lower and entry is easier (tech), thenperspective seems to have changed. What we need now is a balance or redistribution since it’s becoming impossible for those that didn’t win the genetic lottery to prosper. But we need to stay realistic and honest, those with higher intelligence more knowledge (degrees or experience) are preospering and those that don’t aren’t. I think grandparents comment was distasteful, but let’s talk about the concepts rather than downvote.
- nomel 8y ago
  *apologies for the typos and grammar. I wrote this quickly before catching a bus and didn’t have a chance to reread, now it’s too late to edit.

toomuchtodo 8y ago

Historically, before the industrial revolution, business owners would be dragged into the streets and beaten to death when inequality reached a tipping point. Failing to understand history forebodes repeating it.

zxcvvcxz 8y ago
Somehow I seriously doubt that's where we're headed. Perhaps people can go to the polls and write their representatives instead. We have a lack of growth and economic value added for the majority of the population. This was my original observation. I'm not saying I know what's next or what should be done.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  There’s a quote I think is really profound: “A society is three meals away from revolution.” You seriously doubt that’s where things are headed, and yet Venezuela is in that phase currently. Things are stable until they’re not. It is a result of leaving a populace with no other recourse.
  - maxwell 8y ago
    If inequality continues to grow, it seems like eventually an economic crisis will trigger those today called antifa thugs, alt-right nazis, inner city gangmembers, intellectual jihadis, violent incels, etc. to unify against the thousand rich guys who own everything (and so nothing). If they retreat to islands and citadels, perhaps instead retribution will be taken against the perceived proxies of the tech tyrants who ate the world, the tech workers.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      > Or they'll live in citadels and instead retribution will be taken against the perceived proxies of the tech tyrants, the tech workers. Like Google busses being blocked in SF and Apple vans having their windows shot out on the highway? We’re closer to your prediction than you think.