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>Bitcoin is orders of magnitude better money than anything else in every aspect except convenience, but it’s getting there. Firstly, if you think money exists

>Bitcoin is orders of magnitude better money than anything else in every aspect except convenience, but it’s getting there. Firstly, if you think money exists for any reason other than convenience, you fundamentally misunderstand why money exists. Its whole purpose is convenience, to make trade easier. Secondly, the points above are more than just convenience. You have no recourse in cases of fraud or crime when it comes to bitcoin. It costs more to use. And it can be used in much fewer businesses. Those aren't just conveniences; those are fundamental issues of interest to consumers.

keymone 8y ago
Convenience is a matter of development effort. Things like control over ownership, transparency, censorship and oppression resistance are not, they must be the fundamentals the system is built on. That Bitcoin is used for shady stuff and is harder to track is a red herring for all 10 years of its existence. Come back when Bitcoin’s usage for said stuff is within order of magnitude of USD’s market share.
- dmoy 8y ago
  GP was not talking about using Bitcoin for crime, but rather the (extremely common) crime of having your money stolen via fraud or whatever. In USD you have recourse there to be made whole. In btc, you do not.
  - keymone 8y ago
    You have no recourse when your cash is stolen unless you’re insured against that. You have some recourse when stuff from your bank account is stolen because you’re paying the insurance in bank fees and taxes. Those are products you’re paying for. Similar products (and much more flexible/advanced) can be built for bitcoin.
mortdeus 8y ago
Fiat currency is not convenient when it comes to international trade. And it is not convenient as a method of storing large masses of wealth. The fact is, if you were once super rich in Venezuela and you had all your wealth in stacks of Venezuelan money, now you are no longer rich. Which is why most rich people in other countries like to exchange their tangible money for other nation's currency. Because in the event that their country's economy goes belly up then at least not all of their money has become worthless. The problem is that not everybody might be willing to exchange your country's currency for theirs. Which is why the US dollar is the international standard for currency exchange. The big problem the designer of bitcoin saw is the fact that when one country has the ability to make money that everybody wants, we end up in a situation where that country has an unfair advantage to strong arm other nations into a mode of compliance. Like all the US has to do is say that nobody from the US is allowed to exchange their money for Venezuela's money, nor are they allowed to exchange their money for somebody else's money when said person has a history of exchanging currency with Venezuela. The fact that a few countries can get away with such behavior, means in the end that countries are placed into an economic ladder and nobody is allowed to take a step up if that comes at the expense of somebody higher up on the rung having to take a step down. In other words, the US has become a monopoly on all other countries when our dollar is in the middle of international trade. Bitcoin in theory is supposed to replace the dollar role in this sense where no one nation gains the ability to strong arm other nations into behaving in a way that might be contrary to their best interest.

keymone 8y ago

Convenience is a matter of development effort. Things like control over ownership, transparency, censorship and oppression resistance are not, they must be the fundamentals the system is built on. That Bitcoin is used for shady stuff and is harder to track is a red herring for all 10 years of its existence. Come back when Bitcoin’s usage for said stuff is within order of magnitude of USD’s market share.

dmoy 8y ago
GP was not talking about using Bitcoin for crime, but rather the (extremely common) crime of having your money stolen via fraud or whatever. In USD you have recourse there to be made whole. In btc, you do not.
- keymone 8y ago
  You have no recourse when your cash is stolen unless you’re insured against that. You have some recourse when stuff from your bank account is stolen because you’re paying the insurance in bank fees and taxes. Those are products you’re paying for. Similar products (and much more flexible/advanced) can be built for bitcoin.

mortdeus 8y ago

Fiat currency is not convenient when it comes to international trade. And it is not convenient as a method of storing large masses of wealth. The fact is, if you were once super rich in Venezuela and you had all your wealth in stacks of Venezuelan money, now you are no longer rich. Which is why most rich people in other countries like to exchange their tangible money for other nation's currency. Because in the event that their country's economy goes belly up then at least not all of their money has become worthless. The problem is that not everybody might be willing to exchange your country's currency for theirs. Which is why the US dollar is the international standard for currency exchange. The big problem the designer of bitcoin saw is the fact that when one country has the ability to make money that everybody wants, we end up in a situation where that country has an unfair advantage to strong arm other nations into a mode of compliance. Like all the US has to do is say that nobody from the US is allowed to exchange their money for Venezuela's money, nor are they allowed to exchange their money for somebody else's money when said person has a history of exchanging currency with Venezuela. The fact that a few countries can get away with such behavior, means in the end that countries are placed into an economic ladder and nobody is allowed to take a step up if that comes at the expense of somebody higher up on the rung having to take a step down. In other words, the US has become a monopoly on all other countries when our dollar is in the middle of international trade. Bitcoin in theory is supposed to replace the dollar role in this sense where no one nation gains the ability to strong arm other nations into behaving in a way that might be contrary to their best interest.