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> it’s easier to build your own than to gain an understanding of React. And, in today’s corporate how many story points did you complete this sprint “what have

> it’s easier to build your own than to gain an understanding of React. And, in today’s corporate how many story points did you complete this sprint “what have you done for me lately” panopticon culture, building your own looks like productivity, gaining an understanding looks like slacking - a fireable offense. Supposed tech labor shortage or not, few of us have the luxury of looking unproductive regardless of what we’re actually accomplishing.

swatcoder 8y ago
I get what you're saying, but it's easy to decompose "gaining an understanding" into grains useful to task-accounting methodologies like those you're lamenting. I think the pressure towards "just write code" comes from somewhere else.
iliaznk 8y ago
Oh, come on... Is React really that hard to understand? It's one of the simplest libraries I know. I was a self-taught web dev with only about a year (though, quite an extensive year) of JS/jQuery experience when I switched to React. I had never worked with a JS framework before and I knew I was going to need one for my next project, and for some reason I chose the new (at that time - early 2014) React, rather than the established Angular. And after going through the official tutorial everything went so smooth I was amazed by the power of React.
- commandlinefan 8y ago
  > Is React really that hard to understand? Beats me, I've never tried to learn it - it was the author's example of a framework that's harder (or appears to be harder) to learn than to just reimplement from first principles. Replace "React" with something that does fit that description if you like. Unless you think there is no such thing?
  - iliaznk 8y ago
    Well, I guess there sure must be something hard to learn, but is rolling your own easier? I really doubt that. Or why then we don't see a thousand of frameworks in other languages? Are there no hard to learn frameworks written in them? I believe people set out to write a new framework because those that exist do not meet some certain criteria of theirs. And just to imagine somebody lacking ability to comprehend something while having an ability to implement their own... Sounds weird.
    - imnotlost 8y ago
      I've rewritten fairly large systems and re-integrated them faster than I could ever have understood the original code. I don't think React is in that category though, I think the concepts are understandable, the documentation is good, and StackOverflow is helpful. I implemented a small React app while learning it which is in production and running just fine.
      - commandlinefan 8y ago
        Yeah, that’s definitely true of established, in-house, undocumented, partly-working code bases.
      - muxator 8y ago
        https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-...
    - commandlinefan 8y ago
      Well, that's what I (and the author, I believe) are getting at. In the long term, it's almost definitely better to reuse what's already there and is tried, true and tested. But that's in the long term. When you're giving daily (!) status reports and trying to justify your existence, you're better off pointing to something that you programmed than at time you spent learning something. Organizations are shooting themselves in the foot by holding learning in such low regard.
      - 8y ago

swatcoder 8y ago

I get what you're saying, but it's easy to decompose "gaining an understanding" into grains useful to task-accounting methodologies like those you're lamenting. I think the pressure towards "just write code" comes from somewhere else.

iliaznk 8y ago

Oh, come on... Is React really that hard to understand? It's one of the simplest libraries I know. I was a self-taught web dev with only about a year (though, quite an extensive year) of JS/jQuery experience when I switched to React. I had never worked with a JS framework before and I knew I was going to need one for my next project, and for some reason I chose the new (at that time - early 2014) React, rather than the established Angular. And after going through the official tutorial everything went so smooth I was amazed by the power of React.

commandlinefan 8y ago
> Is React really that hard to understand? Beats me, I've never tried to learn it - it was the author's example of a framework that's harder (or appears to be harder) to learn than to just reimplement from first principles. Replace "React" with something that does fit that description if you like. Unless you think there is no such thing?
- iliaznk 8y ago
  Well, I guess there sure must be something hard to learn, but is rolling your own easier? I really doubt that. Or why then we don't see a thousand of frameworks in other languages? Are there no hard to learn frameworks written in them? I believe people set out to write a new framework because those that exist do not meet some certain criteria of theirs. And just to imagine somebody lacking ability to comprehend something while having an ability to implement their own... Sounds weird.
  - imnotlost 8y ago
    I've rewritten fairly large systems and re-integrated them faster than I could ever have understood the original code. I don't think React is in that category though, I think the concepts are understandable, the documentation is good, and StackOverflow is helpful. I implemented a small React app while learning it which is in production and running just fine.
    - commandlinefan 8y ago
      Yeah, that’s definitely true of established, in-house, undocumented, partly-working code bases.
    - muxator 8y ago
      https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-...
  - commandlinefan 8y ago
    Well, that's what I (and the author, I believe) are getting at. In the long term, it's almost definitely better to reuse what's already there and is tried, true and tested. But that's in the long term. When you're giving daily (!) status reports and trying to justify your existence, you're better off pointing to something that you programmed than at time you spent learning something. Organizations are shooting themselves in the foot by holding learning in such low regard.
    - 8y ago