4 ms·

the reason it is compelling to blame tiny third parties for losing elections is because it can happen. if there a very liberal third party like the greens and t

the reason it is compelling to blame tiny third parties for losing elections is because it can happen. if there a very liberal third party like the greens and their vote percentage is higher than the liberal (democratic) candidate lost by, then they probably kept the dem from winning. usually you don't see third party conservative alternatives. and the small third parties don't get any political power in the us system.

yourbandsucks 8y ago
It DID happen. Check the numbers in both 2000 and 2016. The first time, it lead to a million dead Iraqis, the second time we are living through right now.
- marnett 8y ago
  I thought the coup by the Supreme Court elected the president in 2000.
icelancer 8y ago
Every voter is entitled to a vote for whoever they want. The idea that every vote for the Greens would instead go to the Democrats if magically the Greens didn't exist is nonsense. Republicans don't bitch that Libertarians exist. For example, if you take the logical conclusion that if all Green voters voted Democrat and all Libertarian voters voted Republican in the last presidential election, then Trump would have won the popular vote. Democrats don't get to have it both ways.
- Latteland 8y ago
  I did not mean to imply that all green party votes are always wasteful, but there are cases where the green party vote lost the election, and if there wasn't a significant libertarian vote taking away republican votes it's clear that the 3rd party vote did cost an election. green party voters are generally thought to be very democratic if they weren't green. i've voted for green party candidates myself, otherwise i'm very likely to vote dem. libertairan voters seem to be more mixed between dem and r but lean r. Here's a washington post article that considers this issue. There are many other articles that looked into it and came to similar results, that green party voting cost hrc. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/green-party-votes-made-the-difference-in-the-presidential-election/2016/12/05/68899908-ba38-11e6-ae79-bec72d34f8c9_story.html?utm_term=.2f7462c90511 https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/green-party-votes-ma... Even if you want to quibble with a particular article's analysis, with our system it's clear that in close races not voting for a primary party (d or r) could cost them the election.
koolba 8y ago
> the reason it is compelling to blame tiny third parties for losing elections is because it can happen. if there a very liberal third party like the greens and their vote percentage is higher than the liberal (democratic) candidate lost by, then they probably kept the dem from winning. That's b.s. vote shaming. If you lose it's because you failed to convince enough voters in enough places to make you win. > usually you don't see third party conservative alternatives. and the small third parties don't get any political power in the us system. Libertarians are considered by many to be closer to conservatives than liberals and even with terrible candidates like Gary Johnson they got three times as many votes as the Green party in 2016. Gary Johnson Libertarian 4,489,341 3.28% Jill Stein Green 1,457,218 1.07%
- Latteland 8y ago
  I agree that libertarians are closer to conservatives and can serve as a 3rd party vote destination; and if you have significant voting for L & G then my argument isn't right. I was referring to cases where there's only a significant green party vote. I see this in Washington state sometimes.

yourbandsucks 8y ago

It DID happen. Check the numbers in both 2000 and 2016. The first time, it lead to a million dead Iraqis, the second time we are living through right now.

marnett 8y ago
I thought the coup by the Supreme Court elected the president in 2000.

icelancer 8y ago

Every voter is entitled to a vote for whoever they want. The idea that every vote for the Greens would instead go to the Democrats if magically the Greens didn't exist is nonsense. Republicans don't bitch that Libertarians exist. For example, if you take the logical conclusion that if all Green voters voted Democrat and all Libertarian voters voted Republican in the last presidential election, then Trump would have won the popular vote. Democrats don't get to have it both ways.

Latteland 8y ago
I did not mean to imply that all green party votes are always wasteful, but there are cases where the green party vote lost the election, and if there wasn't a significant libertarian vote taking away republican votes it's clear that the 3rd party vote did cost an election. green party voters are generally thought to be very democratic if they weren't green. i've voted for green party candidates myself, otherwise i'm very likely to vote dem. libertairan voters seem to be more mixed between dem and r but lean r. Here's a washington post article that considers this issue. There are many other articles that looked into it and came to similar results, that green party voting cost hrc. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/green-party-votes-made-the-difference-in-the-presidential-election/2016/12/05/68899908-ba38-11e6-ae79-bec72d34f8c9_story.html?utm_term=.2f7462c90511 https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/green-party-votes-ma... Even if you want to quibble with a particular article's analysis, with our system it's clear that in close races not voting for a primary party (d or r) could cost them the election.

koolba 8y ago

> the reason it is compelling to blame tiny third parties for losing elections is because it can happen. if there a very liberal third party like the greens and their vote percentage is higher than the liberal (democratic) candidate lost by, then they probably kept the dem from winning. That's b.s. vote shaming. If you lose it's because you failed to convince enough voters in enough places to make you win. > usually you don't see third party conservative alternatives. and the small third parties don't get any political power in the us system. Libertarians are considered by many to be closer to conservatives than liberals and even with terrible candidates like Gary Johnson they got three times as many votes as the Green party in 2016. Gary Johnson Libertarian 4,489,341 3.28% Jill Stein Green 1,457,218 1.07%

Latteland 8y ago
I agree that libertarians are closer to conservatives and can serve as a 3rd party vote destination; and if you have significant voting for L & G then my argument isn't right. I was referring to cases where there's only a significant green party vote. I see this in Washington state sometimes.