4 ms·

There's no reason you can't find the new job before ditching the existing one.

by mcjiggerlog 8y ago

danieltillett 8y ago
I always thought that is what everybody did before they quit - how wrong I was.
- _4ziu 8y ago
  Maybe not everyone, but most of the time the reason you quit is because of a new job. In all honesty the smart practice is to search for a new job immediately after you get one and keep updating your backlog of potential jobs (you don't have to apply, just keep them in mind)
  - bartread 8y ago
    > In all honesty the smart practice is to search for a new job immediately after you get one and keep updating your backlog of potential jobs (you don't have to apply, just keep them in mind) This is certainly the advice given if you're ruthlessly careerist, and it can be a good strategy if you're still looking for that dream role, but it can also backfire on you. As someone who often needs to recruit I pay fairly close attention to the stability of an applicant's career. In general I don't like to see a lot of job-hopping unless it's in the early years of someone's career, because it can be hard to find a role you really like. Periods of contracting are another exception, although some evidence of stable employment for some period is also beneficial. Recruiting is hugely important, but sucks a lot of time and effort from a team, and incurs significant costs, both direct and indirect. If you've been working for a decade and have never been in a job for more than 2 years that can be a pretty big turn-off. You could of course argue that because I'd prefer to recruit people who will stay for more than 2 years, the roles I have available may not suit you. Bottom line: there's a trade-off you're potentially making by behaving this way, which is fine, but it's important you understand that fact. Still, it's a good idea to start looking for a new job before you've started to hate the old one (bitter experience speaking right here): leave on a high because it'll probably set you up much better for the future.
    - _asummers 8y ago
      I don't think the suggestion was to job hop. My read was that they were suggesting to just always be aware of the market (hence the don't have to apply line) so that you can jump at the perfect opportunity if it comes up, or if something happens to change at your current employer that would require you to search for another job, you're already ahead of the game.
scarface74 8y ago
99% of the time that’s true. The one time I had to quit a job without having one lined up was when I was doing contract to perm. In hindsight, I shouldn’t have taken the job in the first place, but I had just been laid off. I knew they weren’t going to make me full time and as a contractor who was already being watched closely I couldn’t have multiple “doctors appointments”, take advantage of flex time, etc. I needed to focus on getting a job full time. It was 2012, the economy was looking up and I figured I could get s job relatively quickly through my network of recruiters. I walked out noon on Monday and called a recruiter. I had a phone interview with a division of what was then a Fortune 10 company on Wednesday, in person Thursday morning and an offer Thursday evening making $10K more than the job I was laid off from three months earlier. Yes that was partially dumb luck and not something I would try again.
- close04 8y ago
  I think the philosophical point of the article is that if you reached the point where you contemplate breaking up or quitting then you're past a critical threshold. The issues are big enough to get you thinking and you're probably past the point where you see a point in fixing or tried and it didn't work. In which case it will just get progressively worse and the end result is almost inevitable. Hence "probably should". The practicals of doing this will vary of course. There are many factors to keep in mind and a lot of them are personal/subjective.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Breaking up in a relationship is different and it depends on how deep you’re (dating, living together, kids, married) in and how insurmountable the problems are.
    - chiefalchemist 8y ago
      True. But a job is also a relationship, a relationship that works both ways - or should. It might not always be simple or easy but if you're in a bad and unfulfilling relationship then it's up to you to swallow hard and move on. Staying is lost opportunity.
abainbridge 8y ago
The additional wisdom of this approach is that the interview processes you go though are enough to teach you that all the other jobs are crap too and leaving the current one is pointless.
- humanrebar 8y ago
  Also, you can find that all the other crap jobs pay 10-20% better, giving you information and leverage to get a better salary, better benefits, more time off, etc.
dustingetz 8y ago
Incremental steps up might be easy for high performers, but finding an amazing job is really hard, you have to identify a position and then grow yourself to fit it – not something that can be done in a couple hours a week. This is why executives are funemployed for long periods of time.
kpwagner 8y ago
I agree this should be your first choice if you want to stay employed. That's a legitimate "if" since some people may want to take time off from employment for personal reasons or to focus on a project. If that's you, you have my blessing. Think it through, and do what's right for you. I was working as an M&A analyst at an investment bank, and this job has an implied shelf-life. A typical program is two years, and some people stay on for a third year as an "Associate I". Your options for jobs after an investment banking analyst program are much narrower than I estimated when I left college to seek my fortune. Analysts will usually go one of three places: private equity (or venture capital depending on your background), corporate finance (M&A at a big company), or hedge fund. The sad truth that haunts me to this day is, I thought my duty was to quit when my time was up. An Associate I position was not available at my bank after my two years, so I decided to leave. I interviewed for a few positions before leaving (one of them serious), but I didn't receive any offers. I was burned out and really just want to get out of there. One of my coworkers asked me what I planned to do when I left. I said, "Whatever the hell I want." One other serious misestimation on my part: turns out I was not enthusiastic about fighting for a job in an industry that already had too many people fighting for not enough scraps. I required a lot of time and self-reflection to not get some combination of angry, sad, and ashamed when recounting my time in finance. One thing that still upsets me today is, I was a naive 25 year old who didn't even understand the terms of my employment. I was not a contract employee; our agreement was employment-at-will, and I was under no obligation to leave. Yet, the HR department at my bank hardly even acknowledged that I was leaving. Someone told me to leave my keycard and Blackberry on my desk before I left. No exit interview or discussion of any kind. They really let me down because I was clueless. Could I have asked a lot of questions? Yes! And if you are in a similar situation, learn from my mistake. Ask a lot of questions, and find the right people you need to be asking. The thing you should understand about investment banking is, it tends to be a conservative environment with a strong hierarchy. Analysts are at the bottom of the hierarchy. The best analysts are those who efficiently do what they are told to do. I was very good at not complaining even when things sucked, and I was pretty good at the actual work too. But unfortunately, when I thought I was being told to leave. I followed that order too well, and I didn't complain.

There's no reason you can't find the new job before ditching the existing one.

danieltillett 8y ago

I always thought that is what everybody did before they quit - how wrong I was.

_4ziu 8y ago
Maybe not everyone, but most of the time the reason you quit is because of a new job. In all honesty the smart practice is to search for a new job immediately after you get one and keep updating your backlog of potential jobs (you don't have to apply, just keep them in mind)
- bartread 8y ago
  > In all honesty the smart practice is to search for a new job immediately after you get one and keep updating your backlog of potential jobs (you don't have to apply, just keep them in mind) This is certainly the advice given if you're ruthlessly careerist, and it can be a good strategy if you're still looking for that dream role, but it can also backfire on you. As someone who often needs to recruit I pay fairly close attention to the stability of an applicant's career. In general I don't like to see a lot of job-hopping unless it's in the early years of someone's career, because it can be hard to find a role you really like. Periods of contracting are another exception, although some evidence of stable employment for some period is also beneficial. Recruiting is hugely important, but sucks a lot of time and effort from a team, and incurs significant costs, both direct and indirect. If you've been working for a decade and have never been in a job for more than 2 years that can be a pretty big turn-off. You could of course argue that because I'd prefer to recruit people who will stay for more than 2 years, the roles I have available may not suit you. Bottom line: there's a trade-off you're potentially making by behaving this way, which is fine, but it's important you understand that fact. Still, it's a good idea to start looking for a new job before you've started to hate the old one (bitter experience speaking right here): leave on a high because it'll probably set you up much better for the future.
  - _asummers 8y ago
    I don't think the suggestion was to job hop. My read was that they were suggesting to just always be aware of the market (hence the don't have to apply line) so that you can jump at the perfect opportunity if it comes up, or if something happens to change at your current employer that would require you to search for another job, you're already ahead of the game.

scarface74 8y ago

99% of the time that’s true. The one time I had to quit a job without having one lined up was when I was doing contract to perm. In hindsight, I shouldn’t have taken the job in the first place, but I had just been laid off. I knew they weren’t going to make me full time and as a contractor who was already being watched closely I couldn’t have multiple “doctors appointments”, take advantage of flex time, etc. I needed to focus on getting a job full time. It was 2012, the economy was looking up and I figured I could get s job relatively quickly through my network of recruiters. I walked out noon on Monday and called a recruiter. I had a phone interview with a division of what was then a Fortune 10 company on Wednesday, in person Thursday morning and an offer Thursday evening making $10K more than the job I was laid off from three months earlier. Yes that was partially dumb luck and not something I would try again.

close04 8y ago
I think the philosophical point of the article is that if you reached the point where you contemplate breaking up or quitting then you're past a critical threshold. The issues are big enough to get you thinking and you're probably past the point where you see a point in fixing or tried and it didn't work. In which case it will just get progressively worse and the end result is almost inevitable. Hence "probably should". The practicals of doing this will vary of course. There are many factors to keep in mind and a lot of them are personal/subjective.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Breaking up in a relationship is different and it depends on how deep you’re (dating, living together, kids, married) in and how insurmountable the problems are.
  - chiefalchemist 8y ago
    True. But a job is also a relationship, a relationship that works both ways - or should. It might not always be simple or easy but if you're in a bad and unfulfilling relationship then it's up to you to swallow hard and move on. Staying is lost opportunity.

abainbridge 8y ago

The additional wisdom of this approach is that the interview processes you go though are enough to teach you that all the other jobs are crap too and leaving the current one is pointless.

humanrebar 8y ago
Also, you can find that all the other crap jobs pay 10-20% better, giving you information and leverage to get a better salary, better benefits, more time off, etc.

dustingetz 8y ago

Incremental steps up might be easy for high performers, but finding an amazing job is really hard, you have to identify a position and then grow yourself to fit it – not something that can be done in a couple hours a week. This is why executives are funemployed for long periods of time.

kpwagner 8y ago

I agree this should be your first choice if you want to stay employed. That's a legitimate "if" since some people may want to take time off from employment for personal reasons or to focus on a project. If that's you, you have my blessing. Think it through, and do what's right for you. I was working as an M&A analyst at an investment bank, and this job has an implied shelf-life. A typical program is two years, and some people stay on for a third year as an "Associate I". Your options for jobs after an investment banking analyst program are much narrower than I estimated when I left college to seek my fortune. Analysts will usually go one of three places: private equity (or venture capital depending on your background), corporate finance (M&A at a big company), or hedge fund. The sad truth that haunts me to this day is, I thought my duty was to quit when my time was up. An Associate I position was not available at my bank after my two years, so I decided to leave. I interviewed for a few positions before leaving (one of them serious), but I didn't receive any offers. I was burned out and really just want to get out of there. One of my coworkers asked me what I planned to do when I left. I said, "Whatever the hell I want." One other serious misestimation on my part: turns out I was not enthusiastic about fighting for a job in an industry that already had too many people fighting for not enough scraps. I required a lot of time and self-reflection to not get some combination of angry, sad, and ashamed when recounting my time in finance. One thing that still upsets me today is, I was a naive 25 year old who didn't even understand the terms of my employment. I was not a contract employee; our agreement was employment-at-will, and I was under no obligation to leave. Yet, the HR department at my bank hardly even acknowledged that I was leaving. Someone told me to leave my keycard and Blackberry on my desk before I left. No exit interview or discussion of any kind. They really let me down because I was clueless. Could I have asked a lot of questions? Yes! And if you are in a similar situation, learn from my mistake. Ask a lot of questions, and find the right people you need to be asking. The thing you should understand about investment banking is, it tends to be a conservative environment with a strong hierarchy. Analysts are at the bottom of the hierarchy. The best analysts are those who efficiently do what they are told to do. I was very good at not complaining even when things sucked, and I was pretty good at the actual work too. But unfortunately, when I thought I was being told to leave. I followed that order too well, and I didn't complain.