7 ms·

I met a coral researcher last year who said we just have to get over the fact that it’s all over for coral as it exists now, and try to learn as much as possibl

I met a coral researcher last year who said we just have to get over the fact that it’s all over for coral as it exists now, and try to learn as much as possible from it so we can re-design it later ourselves. They were very calm about this suggesting they were way past the grieving period. It was quite shocking to me.

bufferoverflow 8y ago
I'm pretty sure we can create artificial coral reefs in a controlled environment. They won't go extinct.
- adrianN 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure there are still many species in the reefs that we haven't discovered yet.
- intended 8y ago
  There are already attempts to do that. There are a few corals which manage this. But their not going extinct is not the problem. The environment is like a jumbled stack of stilts holding up a house. There’s enough stilts that if a few of them get eaten by termites, there’s enough redundancy to keep the house upright. The system is interconnected and deep enough to end up fine. What’re happening is that many supports are dead, others are rotten and still more are weakening. This means that eventually, one support will collapse and set off a contagion. A collapse chain, similar to what happened during the 2008 crisis. Reef collapse means a whole chunk of ecosystem dies - and it’s never coming back in multiple human life times. This impacts every creature that depends on that ecosystem.
intended 8y ago
There’s a gq/esquire or rolling stone article on depression in the climate sciences. I remember a researcher who described leaving America and heading to a Nordic country to raise his children- because he said its hopeless and this is the only shot his child would have. He gave up on the subject. There’s other parts which describe the number of students who leave the field because of how bleak the data is. If there’s a canary in the coal mine, it’s long since dead and The canary handlers are resigned to inevitable collapse. (And mine owners seem to be fleeing to New Zealand)
- southern_cross 8y ago
  These folks won't be missed for the most part. "Climate science" (note the quotes) will probably benefit greatly once most of the borderline psych cases have left the field.
  - intended 8y ago
    I think this was the article - https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a36228/ballad-of-the-sad-climatologists-0815/ https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a36228/ballad-of-the-s... See if this matches your idea of "borderline psych cases" > As a leading climatologist who spent many years studying the Arctic at the Byrd Polar and Climate Research Center at Ohio State, Box knew that ... >Jeffrey Kiehl was a senior scientist with the National Center for Atmospheric Research when he became so concerned about the way the brain resists climate science, he took a break and got a psychology degree. Ten years of research later, he's concluded that consumption and growth have become so central to our sense of personal identity and the fear of economic loss creates such numbing anxiety, we literally cannot imagine making the necessary changes. Worse, accepting the facts threatens us with a loss of faith in the fundamental order of the universe. Climate scientists are different only because they have a professional excuse for detachment, and usually it's not until they get older that they admit how much it's affecting them—which is also when they tend to get more outspoken, Kiehl says. "You reach a point where you feel—and that's the word, not think, feel—'I have to do something.' " Doesn't match mine.
    - southern_cross 8y ago
      Thanks for the link (I will read it shortly), but I was specifically referring to folks who go around spreading the "OMG, climate change - we're all doomed!" mantra, which is borderline psychotic thinking. But it's basically one ("Repent ye, for the end is nigh!") which has historically been quite effective, as thousands of years of fear-based religious-type dogma will attest. Frankly, at this point I'm not sure what I'm more puzzled by: that so many people seem to be falling for this stuff, or that more people aren't calling it out for what it is. PS: Oops! Turns out that I already read this long ago (I thought it sounded kind of familiar), but I may read it again just for laughs. Even though the story has a "JUL 20, 2018" date on it, it's actually several years old now. Places like Esquire must be getting kind of desperate if they're recycling old stories like this one. "This story was published in the August 2015 issue of Esquire."
raffael-vogler 8y ago
I generally noticed a recent change in tone of reports and documentaries regarding environmental issues towards admitting defeat. In terms of software engineering - we aren't going to refactor our society and economy - instead we'll deploy monkey patches, work-arounds and flashy new features until somehow the plug gets pulled.
- southern_cross 8y ago
  This is a good thing, IMO. Because if a lot of the folks who are currently running their mouths and hogging the limelight by trying to blame anything and everything on climate change (and anything related to climate change on CO2) would just STFU already, then maybe we can figure how much of the danger is actually real vs. what is just hyperbole and maybe even outright lies.

bufferoverflow 8y ago

I'm pretty sure we can create artificial coral reefs in a controlled environment. They won't go extinct.

adrianN 8y ago
I'm pretty sure there are still many species in the reefs that we haven't discovered yet.
intended 8y ago
There are already attempts to do that. There are a few corals which manage this. But their not going extinct is not the problem. The environment is like a jumbled stack of stilts holding up a house. There’s enough stilts that if a few of them get eaten by termites, there’s enough redundancy to keep the house upright. The system is interconnected and deep enough to end up fine. What’re happening is that many supports are dead, others are rotten and still more are weakening. This means that eventually, one support will collapse and set off a contagion. A collapse chain, similar to what happened during the 2008 crisis. Reef collapse means a whole chunk of ecosystem dies - and it’s never coming back in multiple human life times. This impacts every creature that depends on that ecosystem.

intended 8y ago

There’s a gq/esquire or rolling stone article on depression in the climate sciences. I remember a researcher who described leaving America and heading to a Nordic country to raise his children- because he said its hopeless and this is the only shot his child would have. He gave up on the subject. There’s other parts which describe the number of students who leave the field because of how bleak the data is. If there’s a canary in the coal mine, it’s long since dead and The canary handlers are resigned to inevitable collapse. (And mine owners seem to be fleeing to New Zealand)

southern_cross 8y ago
These folks won't be missed for the most part. "Climate science" (note the quotes) will probably benefit greatly once most of the borderline psych cases have left the field.
- intended 8y ago
  I think this was the article - https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a36228/ballad-of-the-sad-climatologists-0815/ https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a36228/ballad-of-the-s... See if this matches your idea of "borderline psych cases" > As a leading climatologist who spent many years studying the Arctic at the Byrd Polar and Climate Research Center at Ohio State, Box knew that ... >Jeffrey Kiehl was a senior scientist with the National Center for Atmospheric Research when he became so concerned about the way the brain resists climate science, he took a break and got a psychology degree. Ten years of research later, he's concluded that consumption and growth have become so central to our sense of personal identity and the fear of economic loss creates such numbing anxiety, we literally cannot imagine making the necessary changes. Worse, accepting the facts threatens us with a loss of faith in the fundamental order of the universe. Climate scientists are different only because they have a professional excuse for detachment, and usually it's not until they get older that they admit how much it's affecting them—which is also when they tend to get more outspoken, Kiehl says. "You reach a point where you feel—and that's the word, not think, feel—'I have to do something.' " Doesn't match mine.
  - southern_cross 8y ago
    Thanks for the link (I will read it shortly), but I was specifically referring to folks who go around spreading the "OMG, climate change - we're all doomed!" mantra, which is borderline psychotic thinking. But it's basically one ("Repent ye, for the end is nigh!") which has historically been quite effective, as thousands of years of fear-based religious-type dogma will attest. Frankly, at this point I'm not sure what I'm more puzzled by: that so many people seem to be falling for this stuff, or that more people aren't calling it out for what it is. PS: Oops! Turns out that I already read this long ago (I thought it sounded kind of familiar), but I may read it again just for laughs. Even though the story has a "JUL 20, 2018" date on it, it's actually several years old now. Places like Esquire must be getting kind of desperate if they're recycling old stories like this one. "This story was published in the August 2015 issue of Esquire."

raffael-vogler 8y ago

I generally noticed a recent change in tone of reports and documentaries regarding environmental issues towards admitting defeat. In terms of software engineering - we aren't going to refactor our society and economy - instead we'll deploy monkey patches, work-arounds and flashy new features until somehow the plug gets pulled.

southern_cross 8y ago
This is a good thing, IMO. Because if a lot of the folks who are currently running their mouths and hogging the limelight by trying to blame anything and everything on climate change (and anything related to climate change on CO2) would just STFU already, then maybe we can figure how much of the danger is actually real vs. what is just hyperbole and maybe even outright lies.