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Is this actually true? I was under the impression the establishment aka Hillary Clinton actually had a thorough report and plan of how to help America’s needies

Is this actually true? I was under the impression the establishment aka Hillary Clinton actually had a thorough report and plan of how to help America’s neediest towns most affected by the closing of blue collar work and factories.

icelancer 8y ago
Plans and such don't really matter to common people when Hillary is dropping lines like "deplorable" people referring to conservatives who hold outdated social views, AKA a lot of blue collar workers. It's entirely a PR thing, which is something we talk about every day on HN. Your actual plan, while somewhat important, is dwarfed by how much people like and believe you. And the credibility of HRC regarding the welfare of people who hate the establishment was low to begin with and collapsed over the length of the election, mostly due to self-inflicted wounds, but also due to Trump being somewhat savvy in that regard. It is absurd that we have Trump as president but it's not all that surprising. People shocked by it need to visit the Southeast a bit more and drive around towns.
- Fjolsvith 8y ago
  Calling people with traditional ("outdated") social views as "common" is the same attitude as calling them "deplorable". When Obamacare forced us to drop our healthcare and family doctor, when we were giving up on finding a job because the Obama administration was anti-business, we decided we didn't want any more of the Democratic planning. Choosing a successful business mogul who has had some experience with failure, who has rough edges, who rewards loyalty, and who appreciates "common" people, was only surprising to the uncommon people.
AngryData 8y ago
I don't know anything about that report but it is also the same promise people have been hearing over and over for decades. Even if it is something that will actually help, how many people are going to believe it? How many have heard of any details about such a plan and would be able to recognize it's merit over all the bullshit they are usually fed? Im not saying its impossible, but most people do not have the interest level or knowledge to delve in at a deeper level with their own research to back up their political or economic ideas. They expect field experts to distill the information down for them and hear it through news and media.
- LordDragonfang 8y ago
  I'm not saying you're wrong, but that argument is literally the opposite of OP's strawman of, >Say you have the establishment candidate says "tough shit" and you believe them because they are reliable.
b1daly 8y ago
As a poster above alluded to, selling the status quo to people have suffered a loss of economic and social standing, is a losing political argument. Even though I think the Democrats have more to offer, say, the rural communities in WI, than the Republicans, they cannot change the demographic and technological forces that are at the root of such voters disillusionment. The Democrats, for better or worse, attempt to stay tethered to objective reality. Trump came along with grandiose promises of restoring the status of rural and working class Americans, and (apparently) some voters were so frustrated and angry that they voted for this imbecile. Whenever I see “man on the street” style reporting on Trump voters, the voters themselves come across as imbeciles. I’ve seriously wondered if this was some kind of editorializing (maybe unconscious) by liberal news editors to make Trump voters look bad. Really,they got nothing from Trump. Set aside all the culture war baggage, and the core argument of substance that Trump voters offer is that Trump is somehow going to “bring (good) jobs back.” In reality, Trump has been a political wrecking ball, and is riding in the success of all the workers who actually keep America functioning. (In government and private sector.) He had made everything worse that he gets his hands on. Like half the population in the US, I keep wondering when Trump voters will wake up to see the naked buffoon, stomping on everyone he can as he fights for survival. I’m worried now they won’t, and we will see more people succumb to totalistic conspiracy mongering. (Like the Qanon fiasco.) In the meantime, elite workers with the opportunity to exploit the system to their own benefit, will simply continue to do so.
dustingetz 8y ago
CLINTON: If everybody’s watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So, you need both a public and a private position.
- dralley 8y ago
  You neglect to mention that this was in the context of her "private position" being single payer healthcare, while her "public position" was more moderate.
  - orbat 8y ago
    Of course they neglect to mention it. It's not like they're arguing in good faith

icelancer 8y ago

Plans and such don't really matter to common people when Hillary is dropping lines like "deplorable" people referring to conservatives who hold outdated social views, AKA a lot of blue collar workers. It's entirely a PR thing, which is something we talk about every day on HN. Your actual plan, while somewhat important, is dwarfed by how much people like and believe you. And the credibility of HRC regarding the welfare of people who hate the establishment was low to begin with and collapsed over the length of the election, mostly due to self-inflicted wounds, but also due to Trump being somewhat savvy in that regard. It is absurd that we have Trump as president but it's not all that surprising. People shocked by it need to visit the Southeast a bit more and drive around towns.

Fjolsvith 8y ago
Calling people with traditional ("outdated") social views as "common" is the same attitude as calling them "deplorable". When Obamacare forced us to drop our healthcare and family doctor, when we were giving up on finding a job because the Obama administration was anti-business, we decided we didn't want any more of the Democratic planning. Choosing a successful business mogul who has had some experience with failure, who has rough edges, who rewards loyalty, and who appreciates "common" people, was only surprising to the uncommon people.

AngryData 8y ago

I don't know anything about that report but it is also the same promise people have been hearing over and over for decades. Even if it is something that will actually help, how many people are going to believe it? How many have heard of any details about such a plan and would be able to recognize it's merit over all the bullshit they are usually fed? Im not saying its impossible, but most people do not have the interest level or knowledge to delve in at a deeper level with their own research to back up their political or economic ideas. They expect field experts to distill the information down for them and hear it through news and media.

LordDragonfang 8y ago
I'm not saying you're wrong, but that argument is literally the opposite of OP's strawman of, >Say you have the establishment candidate says "tough shit" and you believe them because they are reliable.

b1daly 8y ago

As a poster above alluded to, selling the status quo to people have suffered a loss of economic and social standing, is a losing political argument. Even though I think the Democrats have more to offer, say, the rural communities in WI, than the Republicans, they cannot change the demographic and technological forces that are at the root of such voters disillusionment. The Democrats, for better or worse, attempt to stay tethered to objective reality. Trump came along with grandiose promises of restoring the status of rural and working class Americans, and (apparently) some voters were so frustrated and angry that they voted for this imbecile. Whenever I see “man on the street” style reporting on Trump voters, the voters themselves come across as imbeciles. I’ve seriously wondered if this was some kind of editorializing (maybe unconscious) by liberal news editors to make Trump voters look bad. Really,they got nothing from Trump. Set aside all the culture war baggage, and the core argument of substance that Trump voters offer is that Trump is somehow going to “bring (good) jobs back.” In reality, Trump has been a political wrecking ball, and is riding in the success of all the workers who actually keep America functioning. (In government and private sector.) He had made everything worse that he gets his hands on. Like half the population in the US, I keep wondering when Trump voters will wake up to see the naked buffoon, stomping on everyone he can as he fights for survival. I’m worried now they won’t, and we will see more people succumb to totalistic conspiracy mongering. (Like the Qanon fiasco.) In the meantime, elite workers with the opportunity to exploit the system to their own benefit, will simply continue to do so.

dustingetz 8y ago

CLINTON: If everybody’s watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So, you need both a public and a private position.

dralley 8y ago
You neglect to mention that this was in the context of her "private position" being single payer healthcare, while her "public position" was more moderate.
- orbat 8y ago
  Of course they neglect to mention it. It's not like they're arguing in good faith