6 ms·

The voice that matters most for a politician is their vote, McCain did not use his vote to stand up to Trump, quite the contrary.

jacquesm 8y ago
McCain being part of the Republican party would be expected to vote along the lines of that party most of the time so I see no surprise there. But given the ample opportunity that others have had to speak out it is surprising that so few do and allow all this to assume the mantle of acceptability. That McCain chose to make himself heard deserves recognition, even if his voting record is as it is, especially today.
- boomboomsubban 8y ago
  His voting record helped cause the deaths of around 80 Yemeni children in the past month. I'm sure their families are relieved to know that McCain opposed outside influence in US elections.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    I don't think I was arguing from a position of any kind of agreement with US foreign policy.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Ah yes his voting record magically guaranteed a proxy war between Iran and KSA in Yemen and Syria. The Middle East was a fucked up place before the impact of US foreign policy and it will still be fucked even if the Us goes into full isolationism, dictatorships and theocracies with forced national identities governing non-heterogenous ethnic groups tend to cause that. It’s the same reason why European empires broke down and why the Balkans are in such a mess.
    - boomboomsubban 8y ago
      >Ah yes his voting record magically guaranteed a proxy war between Iran and KSA in Yemen and Syria. His voting record sold Saudi Arabia the bombs used to kill those children, and the attacks could only take place with US support.
      - dogma1138 8y ago
        Ah so it's the bombs that Saudi Arabia uses which are the problem? Do you blame Obama for them as well? He approved on just as many sales heck he lobbied for many of them Or do you blame Obama for his foreign and security policies which greenlit the power struggle between Iran and KSA which started this whole mess? Hindsight is always 20/20... But since we're talking about pure logistics here do you think KSA would have problems purchasing those bombs from anyone else? KSA buys as much weapons from Europe these days as they do from the US, if the EU and the US won't sell them bombs then Russia, China or India would, heck KSA is even flying Israeli made drones. And the whole argument is just utterly shameful, it's nothing more than the old hyperbolic trope of but think of the children.... if KSA only dropped bombs on the Iranian backed houthi rebels would that make McCain's voting history acceptable in your mind? Because if all it takes is a few tragic oopsies with too much collateral damage then I don't even want to know what you think about everyone else in US politics since no one can hold a candle to the US when it comes to oopsie I didn't mean to hit that....
        boomboomsubban 8y ago
        >Do you blame Obama for them as well? He approved on just as many sales heck he lobbied for many of them Or do you blame Obama for his foreign and security policies which greenlit the power struggle between Iran and KSA which started this whole mess? Yes. McCain has been a prominent advocate for this war for a long time, but the neocon ideology behind it infects both parties. >But since we're talking about pure logistics here do you think KSA would have problems purchasing those bombs from anyone else? KSA buys as much weapons from Europe these days as they do from the US, if the EU and the US won't sell them bombs then Russia, China or India would, heck KSA is even flying Israeli made drones. They also need US intelligence support for these attacks to happen. If the US was opposed to the war, it would be difficult to find a replacement able to provide both elements that doesn't have good relations with Iran. >And the whole argument is just utterly shameful, it's nothing more than the old hyperbolic trope of but think of the children.... It's not "think of the children," it's "think of the innocent civilians being slaughtered and the pain that must cost their families." This isn't some overblown moral dilemma, real people are dying because of these decisions. >if KSA only dropped bombs on the Iranian backed houthi rebels would that make McCain's voting history acceptable in your mind? If somehow the only victims of war were willing participants, it seems likely my views would change.

jacquesm 8y ago

McCain being part of the Republican party would be expected to vote along the lines of that party most of the time so I see no surprise there. But given the ample opportunity that others have had to speak out it is surprising that so few do and allow all this to assume the mantle of acceptability. That McCain chose to make himself heard deserves recognition, even if his voting record is as it is, especially today.

boomboomsubban 8y ago
His voting record helped cause the deaths of around 80 Yemeni children in the past month. I'm sure their families are relieved to know that McCain opposed outside influence in US elections.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  I don't think I was arguing from a position of any kind of agreement with US foreign policy.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Ah yes his voting record magically guaranteed a proxy war between Iran and KSA in Yemen and Syria. The Middle East was a fucked up place before the impact of US foreign policy and it will still be fucked even if the Us goes into full isolationism, dictatorships and theocracies with forced national identities governing non-heterogenous ethnic groups tend to cause that. It’s the same reason why European empires broke down and why the Balkans are in such a mess.
  - boomboomsubban 8y ago
    >Ah yes his voting record magically guaranteed a proxy war between Iran and KSA in Yemen and Syria. His voting record sold Saudi Arabia the bombs used to kill those children, and the attacks could only take place with US support.
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      Ah so it's the bombs that Saudi Arabia uses which are the problem? Do you blame Obama for them as well? He approved on just as many sales heck he lobbied for many of them Or do you blame Obama for his foreign and security policies which greenlit the power struggle between Iran and KSA which started this whole mess? Hindsight is always 20/20... But since we're talking about pure logistics here do you think KSA would have problems purchasing those bombs from anyone else? KSA buys as much weapons from Europe these days as they do from the US, if the EU and the US won't sell them bombs then Russia, China or India would, heck KSA is even flying Israeli made drones. And the whole argument is just utterly shameful, it's nothing more than the old hyperbolic trope of but think of the children.... if KSA only dropped bombs on the Iranian backed houthi rebels would that make McCain's voting history acceptable in your mind? Because if all it takes is a few tragic oopsies with too much collateral damage then I don't even want to know what you think about everyone else in US politics since no one can hold a candle to the US when it comes to oopsie I didn't mean to hit that....
      - boomboomsubban 8y ago
        >Do you blame Obama for them as well? He approved on just as many sales heck he lobbied for many of them Or do you blame Obama for his foreign and security policies which greenlit the power struggle between Iran and KSA which started this whole mess? Yes. McCain has been a prominent advocate for this war for a long time, but the neocon ideology behind it infects both parties. >But since we're talking about pure logistics here do you think KSA would have problems purchasing those bombs from anyone else? KSA buys as much weapons from Europe these days as they do from the US, if the EU and the US won't sell them bombs then Russia, China or India would, heck KSA is even flying Israeli made drones. They also need US intelligence support for these attacks to happen. If the US was opposed to the war, it would be difficult to find a replacement able to provide both elements that doesn't have good relations with Iran. >And the whole argument is just utterly shameful, it's nothing more than the old hyperbolic trope of but think of the children.... It's not "think of the children," it's "think of the innocent civilians being slaughtered and the pain that must cost their families." This isn't some overblown moral dilemma, real people are dying because of these decisions. >if KSA only dropped bombs on the Iranian backed houthi rebels would that make McCain's voting history acceptable in your mind? If somehow the only victims of war were willing participants, it seems likely my views would change.