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> College is still probably a good deal the majority of the time I think, but I wish there was some acknowledgement that it is less important in some fields tha

> College is still probably a good deal the majority of the time I think, but I wish there was some acknowledgement that it is less important in some fields than others. I'm certainly not advising you what to do - I don't know you at all and you didn't ask - but speaking generally about the issue: I think the unstated premise that college is vocational training for careers is very misguided. College is the acquisition of knowledge, of cognitive skills, and of a personal foundation for life, and life is so much more than career, and you'll probably have several careers. In fact, I'd argue that if you are using college to train for a specific career, you're wasting college. The world is so much bigger than Python or JavaScript, or even than computer science fundamentals. There are so many more issues, so many great thinkers and ideas to learn from, and so many critical thinking skills to acquire, 4 years isn't enough. IMHO, theory is worth the time, a much broader understanding of the world is worth the time, JavaScript you can learn outside of college.

CamTin 8y ago
Sure, we all want to be well-educated and conversant in all the sciences, arts, and humanities. Even more than that, we want to be able to feed ourselves and start a family. From an individual perspective, it makes sense to take care of the latter first. IOW, get a degree that'll put some coin in your pocket, and if you really want to get yourself into the patches-on-your-suitcoat-elbows set, you can do so after you've set yourself up to take care of your responsibilities. Only the megarich can afford to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (representing decades in median salary) and four years to do these things before they've even worked out how they can support themselves. If you want that experience for your children, you first need to work out how to be megarich by the time they reach 18.
- alistairSH 8y ago
  Or, collectively, we figure out how to ensure college doesn’t cost hundreds of thousands in tuition for a BA. When I attended UVA, back in the late 90s, my family was able to pay with no loans. Same for my sister a few years later. Looking at current tuition, that might not be true today. That’s with an engineer father and mom was a teacher (ie, we were comfortably upper-middle class, far from rich, but def. never had financial worries).
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    I 100% agree.
  - CamTin 8y ago
    Yes, absolutely. This is what we want to do. If you're currently 18 though, it's too late for you to wait for systemic change. You have to start adult life under the current system, and under that system you have to look out for your physical welfare first, which means studying something practical. John Adams once wrote to his wife: "The science of government it is my duty to study, more than all other sciences; the arts of legislation and administration and negotiation ought to take the place of, indeed exclude, in a manner, all other arts. I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain." As a society, we still have the obligations of Adams' generation: to establish equitable government and administration. As individuals, many of us have moved on to the obligations of his rhetorical children. The political and professional classes ("megarich" earlier), who have the money to send their kids to get liberal arts degrees with no direct vocational applications, have moved on to enjoy the rights of his rhetorical grandchildren.
- forapurpose 8y ago
  Education will greatly benefit all that you want to do in life, from family to community to finance to career to citizenship to everything else. It teaches you critical thinking, which applies to all of it, and real knowledge of the world, and give you opportunity to excel, live your dreams, and build a better world (for your children too). You have so much more opportunity than you believe; it's sad to see so many throw it away for ideological dogma. > start a family [first] This is not a realistic view of families. People with families have no time for anything else; to generalize, they live for their children - a fulfilling thing that I'm not criticizing, but they don't have a lot of time. Also, who will teach your children about the world if you don't know about it yourself? Who will shape the community and country they grow up in, if not you? > the patches-on-your-suitcoat-elbows set ... Only the megarich can afford ... This creates a class-based system, an aristocracy where others are serfs who work for the 'megarich' who have the tools to run things. In fact, in the land of opportunity, everyone can do it. College is generally too expensive in the U.S., but not in all countries, and even in the U.S. there are ways to afford it (including by changing government).

CamTin 8y ago

Sure, we all want to be well-educated and conversant in all the sciences, arts, and humanities. Even more than that, we want to be able to feed ourselves and start a family. From an individual perspective, it makes sense to take care of the latter first. IOW, get a degree that'll put some coin in your pocket, and if you really want to get yourself into the patches-on-your-suitcoat-elbows set, you can do so after you've set yourself up to take care of your responsibilities. Only the megarich can afford to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (representing decades in median salary) and four years to do these things before they've even worked out how they can support themselves. If you want that experience for your children, you first need to work out how to be megarich by the time they reach 18.

alistairSH 8y ago
Or, collectively, we figure out how to ensure college doesn’t cost hundreds of thousands in tuition for a BA. When I attended UVA, back in the late 90s, my family was able to pay with no loans. Same for my sister a few years later. Looking at current tuition, that might not be true today. That’s with an engineer father and mom was a teacher (ie, we were comfortably upper-middle class, far from rich, but def. never had financial worries).
- forapurpose 8y ago
  I 100% agree.
- CamTin 8y ago
  Yes, absolutely. This is what we want to do. If you're currently 18 though, it's too late for you to wait for systemic change. You have to start adult life under the current system, and under that system you have to look out for your physical welfare first, which means studying something practical. John Adams once wrote to his wife: "The science of government it is my duty to study, more than all other sciences; the arts of legislation and administration and negotiation ought to take the place of, indeed exclude, in a manner, all other arts. I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain." As a society, we still have the obligations of Adams' generation: to establish equitable government and administration. As individuals, many of us have moved on to the obligations of his rhetorical children. The political and professional classes ("megarich" earlier), who have the money to send their kids to get liberal arts degrees with no direct vocational applications, have moved on to enjoy the rights of his rhetorical grandchildren.
forapurpose 8y ago
Education will greatly benefit all that you want to do in life, from family to community to finance to career to citizenship to everything else. It teaches you critical thinking, which applies to all of it, and real knowledge of the world, and give you opportunity to excel, live your dreams, and build a better world (for your children too). You have so much more opportunity than you believe; it's sad to see so many throw it away for ideological dogma. > start a family [first] This is not a realistic view of families. People with families have no time for anything else; to generalize, they live for their children - a fulfilling thing that I'm not criticizing, but they don't have a lot of time. Also, who will teach your children about the world if you don't know about it yourself? Who will shape the community and country they grow up in, if not you? > the patches-on-your-suitcoat-elbows set ... Only the megarich can afford ... This creates a class-based system, an aristocracy where others are serfs who work for the 'megarich' who have the tools to run things. In fact, in the land of opportunity, everyone can do it. College is generally too expensive in the U.S., but not in all countries, and even in the U.S. there are ways to afford it (including by changing government).