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Thanks, nice to have a single person agree with me. That said, I also agree that my personal situation (be it through luck or responsible behavior) now makes it

by drcode 8y ago

Thanks, nice to have a single person agree with me. That said, I also agree that my personal situation (be it through luck or responsible behavior) now makes it possible for me to be generous to others, and I'm certainly happy to pay extra in taxes, to an extent. I guess what bothers me is just this sense of entitlement of people that originated from my same social stratum who now argue "the game was rigged" when I never saw evidence of this. (This annoyance of mine BTW does not transfer to disadvantaged folks who did not come from a middle class background... I agree 100% they got a harder lot in life than many of us and are often right to complain.)

thrownblown 8y ago
i'm ok with student debt amnesty as long as it comes with compulsory civil or military service.
- UncleEntity 8y ago
  Pretty sure they already have that, when I was in the reserves they would have paid down my student loans if I had ever bothered to fill out the paperwork. And a lot of (all?) places have programs where they'll forgive student loans if one stays a teacher for 10 years -- which, as an aside, always boggled my mind that you have to go into major debt to get a public teaching job that pays peanuts but people happily do it.
troupe 8y ago
It isn't that the game is rigged. It is that it assumes rational actors are making wise decisions about their future. Someone who carefully selects a degree that they know will let them pay back their loans is who the system is designed for. There are a lot of people who aren't behaving that way. The numbers are high enough that this isn't just a matter of some people having some hardship. This a large number of people making very poor decisions.
- awocs 8y ago
  When it comes to society level discussion it seems that it is often assumed that people make irrational decisions. I am not sure that is true. For a lot of people it makes sense to take a chance on something unknown rather than to face likely failure. That is presumably also why they think the game is rigged. Because if you ask the average person who didn't go to college they probably aren't doing particularly well either.
  - troupe 8y ago
    If you look at the debt people are willing to acquire in pursuit of something like a degree in theater, it is hard to say it is rational behavior. They are taking a chance on something unknown rather than facing likely success with a career path that is in demand.
lovich 8y ago
Id say the game is rigged from the get go. Between age 18-21 we say that people are not responsible enough to even buy alcohol, but apparently they are responsible enough to sign up for loans that take decades if ever to pay off. Then on top of it weve made the loans impossible to discharge under any circumstances _and_ we have an entire system that tells children their entire life that you go to college or you will have a terrible life. How is any of this not rigging the system?
RickJWagner 8y ago
I agree with you, too. Students have an obligation to make sure they are getting a good education for a fair price, and that they can foot the bill. If they determine the cost is too high, they should not buy from that school. This will eventually fix the problem.

by drcode 8y ago

thrownblown 8y ago

i'm ok with student debt amnesty as long as it comes with compulsory civil or military service.

UncleEntity 8y ago
Pretty sure they already have that, when I was in the reserves they would have paid down my student loans if I had ever bothered to fill out the paperwork. And a lot of (all?) places have programs where they'll forgive student loans if one stays a teacher for 10 years -- which, as an aside, always boggled my mind that you have to go into major debt to get a public teaching job that pays peanuts but people happily do it.

troupe 8y ago

It isn't that the game is rigged. It is that it assumes rational actors are making wise decisions about their future. Someone who carefully selects a degree that they know will let them pay back their loans is who the system is designed for. There are a lot of people who aren't behaving that way. The numbers are high enough that this isn't just a matter of some people having some hardship. This a large number of people making very poor decisions.

awocs 8y ago
When it comes to society level discussion it seems that it is often assumed that people make irrational decisions. I am not sure that is true. For a lot of people it makes sense to take a chance on something unknown rather than to face likely failure. That is presumably also why they think the game is rigged. Because if you ask the average person who didn't go to college they probably aren't doing particularly well either.
- troupe 8y ago
  If you look at the debt people are willing to acquire in pursuit of something like a degree in theater, it is hard to say it is rational behavior. They are taking a chance on something unknown rather than facing likely success with a career path that is in demand.

lovich 8y ago

Id say the game is rigged from the get go. Between age 18-21 we say that people are not responsible enough to even buy alcohol, but apparently they are responsible enough to sign up for loans that take decades if ever to pay off. Then on top of it weve made the loans impossible to discharge under any circumstances _and_ we have an entire system that tells children their entire life that you go to college or you will have a terrible life. How is any of this not rigging the system?

RickJWagner 8y ago

I agree with you, too. Students have an obligation to make sure they are getting a good education for a fair price, and that they can foot the bill. If they determine the cost is too high, they should not buy from that school. This will eventually fix the problem.