6 ms·

Radiolab: Post No Evil [audio]

60 points by bythe4mile 8y ago

BloodyHands 8y ago
facebook has no authority to regulate speech the idea that DARPA built the internet so some college kid could REGULATE SPEECH ON THE INTERNET is really insane because it is 100% anti-American and anti-Constitutional for the government to spend money in an effort to regulate the speech of the American people
27182818284 8y ago
Don't dismiss this episode. I thought it would be kind of trite and boring, but they bring up some really good "What if?" issues that Facebook has to deal with. It also brings up other issues like pay to those filtering and (albeit only a small amount) the stress of workers who have to wade through all the nasty reports.
- themtutty 8y ago
  I want so badly to like Radiolab, but honestly I feel like it's produced by ADHD'ers, for ADHD'ers. Hell, I feel like it gives me ADHD just listening.
  - subcosmos 8y ago
    Doesn't this imply it's best for people who aren't ADHD? Wait, what are we talking about?
    - oliveshell 8y ago
      As somebody who has ADHD quite severely, I have never once in my life got distracted in the middle of a conversation. That’s not how it works, and I’m so goddamn sick of people making jokes like this about it. Everybody with ADHD is slightly different, but for me it’s more of a disconnect between future rewards and present internal motivation. It’s not an issue when I’m talking to somebody – – that shit is all in the present and I thrive in the moment. What I can’t do well at all is make my brain feel like a task is important, rewarding and worth doing if that reward will come far in the future.
      - subcosmos 8y ago
        I'm a lifelong sufferer myself, and so I like to jest.... forgive me What you say makes sense and matches the neurology. I find that maintaining my dopamine levels can be a challenge, and on the extreme end, definitely associated with fatigue severe enough to lose track in the middle of a conversation. Problems with the reward system and executive function are definitely part of the spectrum though! I identify with the symptoms you describe. Today I'm on wellbutrin for the first time, and Im finding it more effective than amphetamines, despite perhaps an increase in social awkwardness. YMMV
mattl 8y ago
Radiolab is incredibly hard to listen to with all the random noises and things they sprinkle into each episode. Contrast this with This American Life and its a world of difference.
- sixothree 8y ago
  I quite like it. I like the interleaving.
- mmanfrin 8y ago
  TAL tends to deal with a more specific topic or story compared to Radiolab, which deals with an idea that has many smaller bits. The editing reflects this. I find it fine to listen to.
- ngold 8y ago
  My favorite is they figured out the most infuriating amount of dead air it takes to get you to check if the headphones disconnected.
- dharmab 8y ago
  I personally love both styles.
- nyolfen 8y ago
  have you listened to a more recent episode (eg this one)? the early episodes sounded like avant-garde sound experiments but the newer ones are much closer to TAL-style editing, just more people talking. they've acknowledged this criticism at least once in an episode.
  - mattl 8y ago
    I think I listened to a reasonably recent one when the Furby source code was released recently. Podcasts are one of my favorite ways to relax and I still found it jarring.
- jcousins 8y ago
  I find the style patronising to the point of irritation. Overly edited, repeatedly cutting to the hosts instead of letting the subject just damn well speak and letting the listeners damn well think for themselves. Maybe I am overly critical but I listen to a wide spectrum of podcast content and their style really gets my back up to the point I gave up listening recently.
coupdejarnac 8y ago
I don't think any discussion of Radiolab is complete without mentioning their episode about "Yellow Rain". I was pretty shocked at how the episode went. https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/239549-yellow-rain https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/239549-yellow-rain The episode contained significant distortions and omissions, all in the purported pursuit of truth. https://hyphenmagazine.com/blog/2012/10/10/deliberate-distortions-radiolab-and-hmong-story https://hyphenmagazine.com/blog/2012/10/10/deliberate-distor... This story made plain their lack of integrity. Since then, I've treated Radiolab for what it is- mildly interesting infotainment with unethical people at the helm.
- afraca 8y ago
  Interesting read! It however does not shock me. That episode is, with your context, as much about truth for them (radiolab, living in US and trying to understand how they could produce chemical weapons) as about the truth of the Hmong. What they're living is a world where formal education says the truth. It would be nice if they would admit that a bit, and be more respectful to the interviewee.
- boomboomsubban 8y ago
  In a search for the truth, eyewitness accounts should basically be ignored. Memory is terrible, and even his memory at the time seems to lack a true smoking gun. As of now, hearing a podcast dismiss an eyewitness account is a welcome change from the "true crime" reliance on them. Besides that, it seems that both sides had a different expectation on what the topic was going to be. It's understandable that Mr. Yang felt hurt afterwards, and it also makes sense that the interviewers would get frustrated in that situation. A good solution would have been to find a platform for Mr. Yang's story after the miscommunication was realized, but the event seems to have went ugly fast.
  - wowDude 8y ago
    Cool. I'm going to disregard any memory of having read this comment, or any of the ideas it attempts to present as facts. My memory is terrible, and if I did remember it, that would likely disprove everything you just said. You helped me realize that I should only believe what I tell myself is true, rather than what I might mistakenly remember. Good thing I won't remember writing this. It would be weird remembering a moment when I was right, but having to disregard it as wrong, because I tell myself I'm wrong, plainly, and in the face of my own memories.
owaty 8y ago
I understand that the point of view that "kill all men" is not hate speech exists, and it's ok to interview someone who holds that view. But when the hosts themselves started talking about how it's not hate speech like it's a very reasonable view to hold, I was a bit shocked. I never enjoyed radiolab or listened to much of it before, but I used to think it was a legit show with respectable hosts, even if I didn't like the format. Would they also say "kill all Americans" is not hate speech because Americans are not "historically oppressed"? Sure, it's safer to talk about Japanese in China on the American radio. (I haven't listened to the whole episode yet, in case they address it later.)
- bachbach 8y ago
  It's not just you. I'm reminded of antisemitism in the conspiratorial way the descriptor is being used and how the Reality Distortion Field extends that that White Males/Jews are the cause of every problem. The fact is that many media people are racists and these people and their fellow travelers don't like it being pointed out that they are being hypocrites. Some of them think being white males themselves is an exemption from criticism - except there are so many historical examples of self hating peoples who supported the people attacking them that it would make your head spin. I remember Scott Alexander, usually a level headed person as you could hope to find - unsettled by what he was reading about the Jewish refugees who ended up in England during WWII - many of whom were praising Adolf with full awareness of what was happening. There's not much to stop self hate going from signalling to malignant. If you look around you won't notice many people speaking out against it, that's because it's mainstreamed, it is the we've always been at war with Eurasia. These people are very confident and very stupid. The moderation mechanism on websites such as this feeds back into this echo chamber too, because I'm aware that every thing I say will be under exacting scrutiny but I'll regularly see violations of the rules I'd never get away with. Rule violations have to be extraordinary to reach a moderators's inbox if they are in the general spirit of the group believes.
spectaclepiece 8y ago
Disappointed to see the discussion here revolve around the podcast production style when the core topic of determining a world wide consensus for what is or isn’t considered ok to publish is such an impossible and simultaneously interesting problem.
abjabule 8y ago
Although the content is audio, I'd like to point out that this page is quite badly designed, particularly that giant fixed-position header. https://i.imgur.com/H0VSndS.png https://i.imgur.com/H0VSndS.png

60 points by bythe4mile 8y ago

facebook has no authority to regulate speech the idea that DARPA built the internet so some college kid could REGULATE SPEECH ON THE INTERNET is really insane because it is 100% anti-American and anti-Constitutional for the government to spend money in an effort to regulate the speech of the American people

27182818284 8y ago

Don't dismiss this episode. I thought it would be kind of trite and boring, but they bring up some really good "What if?" issues that Facebook has to deal with. It also brings up other issues like pay to those filtering and (albeit only a small amount) the stress of workers who have to wade through all the nasty reports.

themtutty 8y ago
I want so badly to like Radiolab, but honestly I feel like it's produced by ADHD'ers, for ADHD'ers. Hell, I feel like it gives me ADHD just listening.
- subcosmos 8y ago
  Doesn't this imply it's best for people who aren't ADHD? Wait, what are we talking about?
  - oliveshell 8y ago
    As somebody who has ADHD quite severely, I have never once in my life got distracted in the middle of a conversation. That’s not how it works, and I’m so goddamn sick of people making jokes like this about it. Everybody with ADHD is slightly different, but for me it’s more of a disconnect between future rewards and present internal motivation. It’s not an issue when I’m talking to somebody – – that shit is all in the present and I thrive in the moment. What I can’t do well at all is make my brain feel like a task is important, rewarding and worth doing if that reward will come far in the future.
    - subcosmos 8y ago
      I'm a lifelong sufferer myself, and so I like to jest.... forgive me What you say makes sense and matches the neurology. I find that maintaining my dopamine levels can be a challenge, and on the extreme end, definitely associated with fatigue severe enough to lose track in the middle of a conversation. Problems with the reward system and executive function are definitely part of the spectrum though! I identify with the symptoms you describe. Today I'm on wellbutrin for the first time, and Im finding it more effective than amphetamines, despite perhaps an increase in social awkwardness. YMMV

mattl 8y ago

Radiolab is incredibly hard to listen to with all the random noises and things they sprinkle into each episode. Contrast this with This American Life and its a world of difference.

sixothree 8y ago
I quite like it. I like the interleaving.
mmanfrin 8y ago
TAL tends to deal with a more specific topic or story compared to Radiolab, which deals with an idea that has many smaller bits. The editing reflects this. I find it fine to listen to.
ngold 8y ago
My favorite is they figured out the most infuriating amount of dead air it takes to get you to check if the headphones disconnected.
dharmab 8y ago
I personally love both styles.
nyolfen 8y ago
have you listened to a more recent episode (eg this one)? the early episodes sounded like avant-garde sound experiments but the newer ones are much closer to TAL-style editing, just more people talking. they've acknowledged this criticism at least once in an episode.
- mattl 8y ago
  I think I listened to a reasonably recent one when the Furby source code was released recently. Podcasts are one of my favorite ways to relax and I still found it jarring.
jcousins 8y ago
I find the style patronising to the point of irritation. Overly edited, repeatedly cutting to the hosts instead of letting the subject just damn well speak and letting the listeners damn well think for themselves. Maybe I am overly critical but I listen to a wide spectrum of podcast content and their style really gets my back up to the point I gave up listening recently.

coupdejarnac 8y ago

I don't think any discussion of Radiolab is complete without mentioning their episode about "Yellow Rain". I was pretty shocked at how the episode went. https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/239549-yellow-rain https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/239549-yellow-rain The episode contained significant distortions and omissions, all in the purported pursuit of truth. https://hyphenmagazine.com/blog/2012/10/10/deliberate-distortions-radiolab-and-hmong-story https://hyphenmagazine.com/blog/2012/10/10/deliberate-distor... This story made plain their lack of integrity. Since then, I've treated Radiolab for what it is- mildly interesting infotainment with unethical people at the helm.

afraca 8y ago
Interesting read! It however does not shock me. That episode is, with your context, as much about truth for them (radiolab, living in US and trying to understand how they could produce chemical weapons) as about the truth of the Hmong. What they're living is a world where formal education says the truth. It would be nice if they would admit that a bit, and be more respectful to the interviewee.
boomboomsubban 8y ago
In a search for the truth, eyewitness accounts should basically be ignored. Memory is terrible, and even his memory at the time seems to lack a true smoking gun. As of now, hearing a podcast dismiss an eyewitness account is a welcome change from the "true crime" reliance on them. Besides that, it seems that both sides had a different expectation on what the topic was going to be. It's understandable that Mr. Yang felt hurt afterwards, and it also makes sense that the interviewers would get frustrated in that situation. A good solution would have been to find a platform for Mr. Yang's story after the miscommunication was realized, but the event seems to have went ugly fast.
- wowDude 8y ago
  Cool. I'm going to disregard any memory of having read this comment, or any of the ideas it attempts to present as facts. My memory is terrible, and if I did remember it, that would likely disprove everything you just said. You helped me realize that I should only believe what I tell myself is true, rather than what I might mistakenly remember. Good thing I won't remember writing this. It would be weird remembering a moment when I was right, but having to disregard it as wrong, because I tell myself I'm wrong, plainly, and in the face of my own memories.

owaty 8y ago

I understand that the point of view that "kill all men" is not hate speech exists, and it's ok to interview someone who holds that view. But when the hosts themselves started talking about how it's not hate speech like it's a very reasonable view to hold, I was a bit shocked. I never enjoyed radiolab or listened to much of it before, but I used to think it was a legit show with respectable hosts, even if I didn't like the format. Would they also say "kill all Americans" is not hate speech because Americans are not "historically oppressed"? Sure, it's safer to talk about Japanese in China on the American radio. (I haven't listened to the whole episode yet, in case they address it later.)

bachbach 8y ago
It's not just you. I'm reminded of antisemitism in the conspiratorial way the descriptor is being used and how the Reality Distortion Field extends that that White Males/Jews are the cause of every problem. The fact is that many media people are racists and these people and their fellow travelers don't like it being pointed out that they are being hypocrites. Some of them think being white males themselves is an exemption from criticism - except there are so many historical examples of self hating peoples who supported the people attacking them that it would make your head spin. I remember Scott Alexander, usually a level headed person as you could hope to find - unsettled by what he was reading about the Jewish refugees who ended up in England during WWII - many of whom were praising Adolf with full awareness of what was happening. There's not much to stop self hate going from signalling to malignant. If you look around you won't notice many people speaking out against it, that's because it's mainstreamed, it is the we've always been at war with Eurasia. These people are very confident and very stupid. The moderation mechanism on websites such as this feeds back into this echo chamber too, because I'm aware that every thing I say will be under exacting scrutiny but I'll regularly see violations of the rules I'd never get away with. Rule violations have to be extraordinary to reach a moderators's inbox if they are in the general spirit of the group believes.

spectaclepiece 8y ago

Disappointed to see the discussion here revolve around the podcast production style when the core topic of determining a world wide consensus for what is or isn’t considered ok to publish is such an impossible and simultaneously interesting problem.

abjabule 8y ago

Although the content is audio, I'd like to point out that this page is quite badly designed, particularly that giant fixed-position header. https://i.imgur.com/H0VSndS.png https://i.imgur.com/H0VSndS.png