6 ms·

There really hasn't been any point to recycling paper, plastic, and glass for quite some time now. Recycling glass hasn't made sense ever since local bottling p

by cc439 8y ago

There really hasn't been any point to recycling paper, plastic, and glass for quite some time now. Recycling glass hasn't made sense ever since local bottling plants ceased to exist in most cities, removing the system by which they were able to re-use recycled bottles. Recycling paper is obviously no longer a sensible activity given the issues of contamination and lack of economic incentives given just how cheap sustainably harvested wood has become. Plastic, well plastic would make sense if we could ever figure out how to sort all the different types automatically. The re-use of recycled plastic is basically limited to a handful of common product types (plastic bottles that are either HDPE or PET and easily identifiable as such). That said, one should always make an effort to recycle aluminum properly. There's a reason aluminum is often referred to as "solidified electricity" and it's because it takes enormous amounts of energy to extract aluminum from raw ore. Recycling finished aluminum goods cuts out that entire step of the production chain and has an enormous impact on large-scale energy consumption.

marmadukester39 8y ago
WHY cant we just standardize on bottle/cup size/shape? Just use different labels.
lurquer 8y ago
Recycling is a way to profit off of virtue signaling. Why should I separate my trash to make some recycling company more profitable? If they pay me enough, I might do it. Otherwise, it's all going into the landfill. Even aluminum. If some aluminum company wants it bad enough -- and if it's worth enough -- they can go dig it up. I dislike companies making profits on forced labor. Too many virtue-signaling municipalities mandate recycling (and sometimes even charges you for pickup) just so some recycling company can increase its bottom line. Nonsense. Bury everything. It's cheap.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  What's the pejorative term for when you brag that you just don't give a fuck?
- Mediterraneo10 8y ago
  > If some aluminum company wants it bad enough -- and if it's worth enough -- they can go dig it up. The point of recycling aluminium is that is avoids the enormous energy expenditures and carbon of processing raw ore. So, recycling is a sensible step towards environmental protection. It might “make a company some money”, but your failing to do it still has environmental consequences. And if a company had to go “dig it up”, there would probably still be more carbon generated than if you just sorted your rubbish.
  - PeterisP 8y ago
    I'm reading the parent post's argument as less against recycling as such but rather against trash sorting by the general population. I.e. if recycling aluminium saves more resources than it cost in labor/effort, then it should be economically profitable to do so with the recycling company doing the sorting of that aluminium out of trash or even digging it up from the landfill instead of processing raw ore. If recycling something is profitable only if subsidized by free sorting labor from the general population, then it seems like a signal that it's not actually worth it to spend that labor on it, if reusing that material is so worthless compared to the effort it takes to sort it; so (depending on local economics) it may be that it's good to recycle scrap metal and aluminium and worthless to recycle paper or some types of plastic.
    - maxerickson 8y ago
      The idea that separating trash into 2 or 3 streams comes at a big personal cost is kind of ridiculous though. It doesn't involve a lot of time or space or whatever.
    - ubercow13 8y ago
      The effort it takes to sort it out from the rest of your trash once it's mixed in with your diapers and whatever else probably isn't equivalent to the effort of you sorting it in the first place, though
    - lurquer 8y ago
      Well said.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Some trash haulers do process their garbage stream for metals and such. A lot of times municipal dumps are pushing recycling because it's cheaper than managing the material in the landfill for decades to come.
- UncleEntity 8y ago
  I just leave the aluminum cans in a bag next to the dumpster and they get magically recycled with no effort on my part by the folks who dumpster dive for recyclables around here. Saves them the hassle of digging them out and I get the satisfaction of knowing I'm doing my part for Mother Nature -- win/win in my book.
sschueller 8y ago
So if recycling makes no sense why do I and everyone else here in Switzerland do it? We separate paper, cardboard, glass (by color) [1], aluminium and plastics (PET). All of those are free to get rid of. Trash however is not and is charged at a high rate per bag. Paper and cardboard go to several paper plants which re-use it to produce recycled paper items.[2] PET is turned back into bottle and other items [3] Aluminum is reused and saves more than 95% of the original energy required to produce it (as you said) [4] 2/3 of the glass collected is turned into new bottles. [5] Trash is sent of to an incineration plant which produces electricity and heat [6]. [1] https://www.buelach.ch/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_2012_07JuliSammelstelleStadtweiher_4885166ab2.jpg https://www.buelach.ch/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_2012_07Juli... [2] http://www.altpapier.ch/ http://www.altpapier.ch/ [3] https://www.petrecycling.ch https://www.petrecycling.ch [4] http://www.swissrecycling.ch/wertstoffe/aluminium/ http://www.swissrecycling.ch/wertstoffe/aluminium/ [5] https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/ted/de/index/entsorgung_recycling/sauberes_zuerich/was_entsorgen/glas.html https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/ted/de/index/entsorgung_recycli... [6] https://docplayer.org/docs-images/50/18262133/images/page_4.jpg https://docplayer.org/docs-images/50/18262133/images/page_4....
- stephengillie 8y ago
  > So if recycling makes no sense why do I and everyone else here in Switzerland do it? Here near Seattle, it's mandated by law. Do laws require recycling in Switzerland? Each of the recycling facts may be true in small runs of sorted material. It is more difficult to make these true in large runs of unsorted material. Tangent: Where are the AI that should sort these for us?
  - sschueller 8y ago
    Not everything is required to be sorted by law but regular trash is abhorrently expensive and if you try to dispose of it without paying they have people who's job it is to go through those bags and find out who dumped it. So you try to minimize the amount of trash you generate by recycling everything you can. Additionally stores are required to keep packaging if you request it and you can dispose of old electronics at any place that sells electronics. Compacting your trash without paying extra will also result in a fine and so does placing your trash outside not on trash day (at least in some places). Thankfully we have theses (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhbhvdvTWUg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhbhvdvTWUg) in a lot of places so you can dump your trash anytime.
rapnie 8y ago
> Plastic, well plastic would make sense if we could ever figure out how to sort all the different types automatically. Hopeful news.. see: https://materialdistrict.com/article/innovations-plastic-recycling/ https://materialdistrict.com/article/innovations-plastic-rec...

by cc439 8y ago

marmadukester39 8y ago

WHY cant we just standardize on bottle/cup size/shape? Just use different labels.

lurquer 8y ago

Recycling is a way to profit off of virtue signaling. Why should I separate my trash to make some recycling company more profitable? If they pay me enough, I might do it. Otherwise, it's all going into the landfill. Even aluminum. If some aluminum company wants it bad enough -- and if it's worth enough -- they can go dig it up. I dislike companies making profits on forced labor. Too many virtue-signaling municipalities mandate recycling (and sometimes even charges you for pickup) just so some recycling company can increase its bottom line. Nonsense. Bury everything. It's cheap.

maxerickson 8y ago
What's the pejorative term for when you brag that you just don't give a fuck?
Mediterraneo10 8y ago
> If some aluminum company wants it bad enough -- and if it's worth enough -- they can go dig it up. The point of recycling aluminium is that is avoids the enormous energy expenditures and carbon of processing raw ore. So, recycling is a sensible step towards environmental protection. It might “make a company some money”, but your failing to do it still has environmental consequences. And if a company had to go “dig it up”, there would probably still be more carbon generated than if you just sorted your rubbish.
- PeterisP 8y ago
  I'm reading the parent post's argument as less against recycling as such but rather against trash sorting by the general population. I.e. if recycling aluminium saves more resources than it cost in labor/effort, then it should be economically profitable to do so with the recycling company doing the sorting of that aluminium out of trash or even digging it up from the landfill instead of processing raw ore. If recycling something is profitable only if subsidized by free sorting labor from the general population, then it seems like a signal that it's not actually worth it to spend that labor on it, if reusing that material is so worthless compared to the effort it takes to sort it; so (depending on local economics) it may be that it's good to recycle scrap metal and aluminium and worthless to recycle paper or some types of plastic.
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    The idea that separating trash into 2 or 3 streams comes at a big personal cost is kind of ridiculous though. It doesn't involve a lot of time or space or whatever.
  - ubercow13 8y ago
    The effort it takes to sort it out from the rest of your trash once it's mixed in with your diapers and whatever else probably isn't equivalent to the effort of you sorting it in the first place, though
  - lurquer 8y ago
    Well said.
maxerickson 8y ago
Some trash haulers do process their garbage stream for metals and such. A lot of times municipal dumps are pushing recycling because it's cheaper than managing the material in the landfill for decades to come.
UncleEntity 8y ago
I just leave the aluminum cans in a bag next to the dumpster and they get magically recycled with no effort on my part by the folks who dumpster dive for recyclables around here. Saves them the hassle of digging them out and I get the satisfaction of knowing I'm doing my part for Mother Nature -- win/win in my book.

sschueller 8y ago

So if recycling makes no sense why do I and everyone else here in Switzerland do it? We separate paper, cardboard, glass (by color) [1], aluminium and plastics (PET). All of those are free to get rid of. Trash however is not and is charged at a high rate per bag. Paper and cardboard go to several paper plants which re-use it to produce recycled paper items.[2] PET is turned back into bottle and other items [3] Aluminum is reused and saves more than 95% of the original energy required to produce it (as you said) [4] 2/3 of the glass collected is turned into new bottles. [5] Trash is sent of to an incineration plant which produces electricity and heat [6]. [1] https://www.buelach.ch/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_2012_07JuliSammelstelleStadtweiher_4885166ab2.jpg https://www.buelach.ch/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_2012_07Juli... [2] http://www.altpapier.ch/ http://www.altpapier.ch/ [3] https://www.petrecycling.ch https://www.petrecycling.ch [4] http://www.swissrecycling.ch/wertstoffe/aluminium/ http://www.swissrecycling.ch/wertstoffe/aluminium/ [5] https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/ted/de/index/entsorgung_recycling/sauberes_zuerich/was_entsorgen/glas.html https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/ted/de/index/entsorgung_recycli... [6] https://docplayer.org/docs-images/50/18262133/images/page_4.jpg https://docplayer.org/docs-images/50/18262133/images/page_4....

stephengillie 8y ago
> So if recycling makes no sense why do I and everyone else here in Switzerland do it? Here near Seattle, it's mandated by law. Do laws require recycling in Switzerland? Each of the recycling facts may be true in small runs of sorted material. It is more difficult to make these true in large runs of unsorted material. Tangent: Where are the AI that should sort these for us?
- sschueller 8y ago
  Not everything is required to be sorted by law but regular trash is abhorrently expensive and if you try to dispose of it without paying they have people who's job it is to go through those bags and find out who dumped it. So you try to minimize the amount of trash you generate by recycling everything you can. Additionally stores are required to keep packaging if you request it and you can dispose of old electronics at any place that sells electronics. Compacting your trash without paying extra will also result in a fine and so does placing your trash outside not on trash day (at least in some places). Thankfully we have theses (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhbhvdvTWUg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhbhvdvTWUg) in a lot of places so you can dump your trash anytime.

rapnie 8y ago

> Plastic, well plastic would make sense if we could ever figure out how to sort all the different types automatically. Hopeful news.. see: https://materialdistrict.com/article/innovations-plastic-recycling/ https://materialdistrict.com/article/innovations-plastic-rec...