6 ms·

I doubt this is a new observation, but what strikes me is that the US employment system is based on benefits via employment (healthcare, retirement). The curre

by bsg75 8y ago

I doubt this is a new observation, but what strikes me is that the US employment system is based on benefits via employment (healthcare, retirement). The current "gig economy" trend removes these benefits from employment, and with a government currently opposed to public benefits, the US could be headed towards a problem within a single generation. This race to the bottom (disruption) seems counter productive for anything but short term investment.

bproven 8y ago
Good point.. >This race to the bottom (disruption) seems counter productive for anything but short term investment. And you know who most benefits from this type of investment (basically the ones with the big money to invest with little to no real risk to their way of life). So I don't see it ending any time soon...
- noobermin 8y ago
  This has happened before in history, and it doesn't turn out well for the people with big money.
  - n-exploit 8y ago
    Big money is doesn't matter when its denominated in fiat.
  - andrepd 8y ago
    Here's hoping.
maxerickson 8y ago
There's already tens of millions of people with no employer provided healthcare or retirement savings. The gig economy is reducing wages and stability.
- bsg75 8y ago
  > The gig economy is reducing wages and stability. Edit: And in turn purposefully growing an existing problem.
ghaff 8y ago
In the case of health insurance, it mostly came about because of wage controls during WW II. Companies couldn't offer more money in a tight labor market but they were allowed to offer fringe benefits like insurance. 401(k)'s history is almost wacky. It was an obscure provision in 1978 tax law and a benefits consultant figured out a way to turn it into something that companies could easily offer to employees as a tax-advantaged benefit. Of course, once a benefit becomes the norm, it's almost impossible for individual firms to not offer it.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  > Companies couldn't offer more money in a tight labor market It was illegal for them to offer more money - Roosevelt instituted wage fixing. Offering benefits was a way around the law. > Of course, once a benefit becomes the norm, it's almost impossible for individual firms to not offer it. The real reason is that health insurance paid from pre-tax money by the employer makes it cheaper than being post-tax money by the employee. It's the tax system that binds workers to jobs via health care benefits. Another reason people want wage increases in the form of employer-paid benefits is then they get to lie about the terrible pay they get, because they never ever account for the value of the benefits. For example, whenever the teachers complain about their salaries, never mentioned are the generous benefits package they get.
  - malcolmgreaves 8y ago
    Teachers don't get paid enough.
    - YokoZar 8y ago
      While true, they get paid substantially more than people with the same salary and no benefits.
      - ddingus 8y ago
        And that is a problem too. Still, teachers are not paid enough.
noobermin 8y ago
It just seems easier to just give these benefits from public institutions then so employers don't need to give them.
- URSpider94 8y ago
  “Easier” in the sense that it removes the illogical connection between employment and access to health care. Definitely not easier in the sense that a sizeable plurality of the country, currently in control of both houses of Congress, the Presidency, the Supreme Court, and the majority of state legislative and executive branches, think this is a terrible idea that they equate with creeping Communism.
  - orangecat 8y ago
    Or, we could have people buy health insurance with their own money, and provide assistance to those who can't afford it. The same thing we do with food, housing, transportation, and basically everything else.
- walshemj 8y ago
  So your arguing for the NHS model brave choice in the US system and also doesn't work well unless you strip a lot ow power from the individual states. The German style system is as probably the system you could have got if people weren't so obsessed with Obamas skin color.
BurningFrog 8y ago
Yeah, the gig economy in many ways is better suited for the average industrialized welfare state.
pergadad 8y ago
Probably this is one reason why gig economy is much bigger in the US than elsewhere (excluding cross-border services delivered from poor to rich countries). Airbnb is big in other places, but Uber much less so.

by bsg75 8y ago

bproven 8y ago

Good point.. >This race to the bottom (disruption) seems counter productive for anything but short term investment. And you know who most benefits from this type of investment (basically the ones with the big money to invest with little to no real risk to their way of life). So I don't see it ending any time soon...

noobermin 8y ago
This has happened before in history, and it doesn't turn out well for the people with big money.
- n-exploit 8y ago
  Big money is doesn't matter when its denominated in fiat.
- andrepd 8y ago
  Here's hoping.

maxerickson 8y ago

There's already tens of millions of people with no employer provided healthcare or retirement savings. The gig economy is reducing wages and stability.

bsg75 8y ago
> The gig economy is reducing wages and stability. Edit: And in turn purposefully growing an existing problem.

ghaff 8y ago

In the case of health insurance, it mostly came about because of wage controls during WW II. Companies couldn't offer more money in a tight labor market but they were allowed to offer fringe benefits like insurance. 401(k)'s history is almost wacky. It was an obscure provision in 1978 tax law and a benefits consultant figured out a way to turn it into something that companies could easily offer to employees as a tax-advantaged benefit. Of course, once a benefit becomes the norm, it's almost impossible for individual firms to not offer it.

skookumchuck 8y ago
> Companies couldn't offer more money in a tight labor market It was illegal for them to offer more money - Roosevelt instituted wage fixing. Offering benefits was a way around the law. > Of course, once a benefit becomes the norm, it's almost impossible for individual firms to not offer it. The real reason is that health insurance paid from pre-tax money by the employer makes it cheaper than being post-tax money by the employee. It's the tax system that binds workers to jobs via health care benefits. Another reason people want wage increases in the form of employer-paid benefits is then they get to lie about the terrible pay they get, because they never ever account for the value of the benefits. For example, whenever the teachers complain about their salaries, never mentioned are the generous benefits package they get.
- malcolmgreaves 8y ago
  Teachers don't get paid enough.
  - YokoZar 8y ago
    While true, they get paid substantially more than people with the same salary and no benefits.
    - ddingus 8y ago
      And that is a problem too. Still, teachers are not paid enough.

noobermin 8y ago

It just seems easier to just give these benefits from public institutions then so employers don't need to give them.

URSpider94 8y ago
“Easier” in the sense that it removes the illogical connection between employment and access to health care. Definitely not easier in the sense that a sizeable plurality of the country, currently in control of both houses of Congress, the Presidency, the Supreme Court, and the majority of state legislative and executive branches, think this is a terrible idea that they equate with creeping Communism.
- orangecat 8y ago
  Or, we could have people buy health insurance with their own money, and provide assistance to those who can't afford it. The same thing we do with food, housing, transportation, and basically everything else.
walshemj 8y ago
So your arguing for the NHS model brave choice in the US system and also doesn't work well unless you strip a lot ow power from the individual states. The German style system is as probably the system you could have got if people weren't so obsessed with Obamas skin color.

BurningFrog 8y ago

Yeah, the gig economy in many ways is better suited for the average industrialized welfare state.

pergadad 8y ago

Probably this is one reason why gig economy is much bigger in the US than elsewhere (excluding cross-border services delivered from poor to rich countries). Airbnb is big in other places, but Uber much less so.