10 ms·

I Delivered Packages for Amazon and It Was a Nightmare

136 points by yarapavan 8y ago

bsg75 8y ago
I doubt this is a new observation, but what strikes me is that the US employment system is based on benefits via employment (healthcare, retirement). The current "gig economy" trend removes these benefits from employment, and with a government currently opposed to public benefits, the US could be headed towards a problem within a single generation. This race to the bottom (disruption) seems counter productive for anything but short term investment.
- bproven 8y ago
  Good point.. >This race to the bottom (disruption) seems counter productive for anything but short term investment. And you know who most benefits from this type of investment (basically the ones with the big money to invest with little to no real risk to their way of life). So I don't see it ending any time soon...
  - noobermin 8y ago
    This has happened before in history, and it doesn't turn out well for the people with big money.
    - n-exploit 8y ago
      Big money is doesn't matter when its denominated in fiat.
    - andrepd 8y ago
      Here's hoping.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  There's already tens of millions of people with no employer provided healthcare or retirement savings. The gig economy is reducing wages and stability.
  - bsg75 8y ago
    > The gig economy is reducing wages and stability. Edit: And in turn purposefully growing an existing problem.
- ghaff 8y ago
  In the case of health insurance, it mostly came about because of wage controls during WW II. Companies couldn't offer more money in a tight labor market but they were allowed to offer fringe benefits like insurance. 401(k)'s history is almost wacky. It was an obscure provision in 1978 tax law and a benefits consultant figured out a way to turn it into something that companies could easily offer to employees as a tax-advantaged benefit. Of course, once a benefit becomes the norm, it's almost impossible for individual firms to not offer it.
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    > Companies couldn't offer more money in a tight labor market It was illegal for them to offer more money - Roosevelt instituted wage fixing. Offering benefits was a way around the law. > Of course, once a benefit becomes the norm, it's almost impossible for individual firms to not offer it. The real reason is that health insurance paid from pre-tax money by the employer makes it cheaper than being post-tax money by the employee. It's the tax system that binds workers to jobs via health care benefits. Another reason people want wage increases in the form of employer-paid benefits is then they get to lie about the terrible pay they get, because they never ever account for the value of the benefits. For example, whenever the teachers complain about their salaries, never mentioned are the generous benefits package they get.
    - malcolmgreaves 8y ago
      Teachers don't get paid enough.
      - YokoZar 8y ago
        While true, they get paid substantially more than people with the same salary and no benefits.
        ddingus 8y ago
        And that is a problem too. Still, teachers are not paid enough.
- noobermin 8y ago
  It just seems easier to just give these benefits from public institutions then so employers don't need to give them.
  - URSpider94 8y ago
    “Easier” in the sense that it removes the illogical connection between employment and access to health care. Definitely not easier in the sense that a sizeable plurality of the country, currently in control of both houses of Congress, the Presidency, the Supreme Court, and the majority of state legislative and executive branches, think this is a terrible idea that they equate with creeping Communism.
    - orangecat 8y ago
      Or, we could have people buy health insurance with their own money, and provide assistance to those who can't afford it. The same thing we do with food, housing, transportation, and basically everything else.
  - walshemj 8y ago
    So your arguing for the NHS model brave choice in the US system and also doesn't work well unless you strip a lot ow power from the individual states. The German style system is as probably the system you could have got if people weren't so obsessed with Obamas skin color.
- BurningFrog 8y ago
  Yeah, the gig economy in many ways is better suited for the average industrialized welfare state.
- pergadad 8y ago
  Probably this is one reason why gig economy is much bigger in the US than elsewhere (excluding cross-border services delivered from poor to rich countries). Airbnb is big in other places, but Uber much less so.
amarkov 8y ago
I'm sure it's a nightmare for a professional journalist. And I don't mean that as an insult - it'd be a nightmare for me too. But you know what's more of a nightmare? Driving around to every retail outlet in a 30 mile radius, trying to convince them that you can be the most submissive and obedient out of the 200 applicants. It's hard to begrudge the gig economy for providing an alternative to that.
- nickthemagicman 8y ago
  Yep. Or Wal Mart. And people are trapped in these jobs.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    You'd probably make more at Walmart and with a more stable/ consistent incomw vs the "gig economy"
    - imnicnic 8y ago
      Gigs are highly addictive
      - ghaff 8y ago
        People do at least own their own schedule which is a big difference from much of retail. That said, as this article notes, your cost to do these gigs is often higher than people think it will be (or even realize it is).
        orangecat 8y ago
        People do at least own their own schedule which is a big difference from much of retail. Right, and this can easily be underappreciated by those of us working in environments where it's hardly ever a problem if you need to take a few hours to deal with personal issues.
      - paulie_a 8y ago
hamandcheese 8y ago
> Amazon also does not break down how much he receives in tips and how much he receives in pay from the company—for all he knows, people are tipping him $20 and Amazon is paying him less than minimum wage. Wow. Do other gig economy jobs do this? Uber and Lyft? I may just start carrying cash to leave tips now.
- ummonk 8y ago
  I believe Lyft does not take any cut from the tip.
lobotryas 8y ago
Am I the only one who felt how jealous the author was of the people to whom he was delivering these packages? Someone else made deliberate life choices and maybe sacrificed a lot to be in a position they are at a prestigious tech company with a good salary. Heck, even if that person just got plain lucky, I still don't see where dwelling on their success vs the author working a gig job gets anyone anywhere. I'm not jealous of movie or sports stars and the millions they earn. Where does this person get to think life is unfair because they never applied to/were never hired by Google or the like?
tranchms 8y ago
This article reads like it was written by an entitled millennial (i.e. someone who never had to make sacrifices and perform hard and unappreciated work to enjoy basic comforts). Every job is optional. If it’s beneath you, don’t take it. Hard work is hard work. It’s above minimum wage, and you’re not being abused, then what’s the problem? You don’t get to dictate your value. You earn what you’re willing to work for. What did she think she was signing up for? Find another job if it doesn’t suit you. No job is perfect. There are legions of Flex employees who are grateful for the flexibility this job provides. If you want to make more money, educate yourself, network, apply to different jobs, work hard, be persistent. People are so myopic about work these days. Opportunities are out there if you work to find them. The same work ethic that it takes to find those great opportunities will make you successful in life.
- polskibus 8y ago
  Problem with this reasoning is that today, the population is decreasing in most developed countries, meaning that older generation will beg the younger more and more. People have less and less kids, so the job market is shrinking.
  - tranchms 8y ago
    Population is decreasing in most developed countries? Where did you get that idea? Birth rates may decrease, but that’s why we have immigration. Men and women both work these days, doubling the labor pool. I don’t understand this comment.
    - polskibus 8y ago
      There's a lot of workforce shortage in many places in the EU (esp. smaller towns) partially because of low fertility and partially because of intra-EU migrations. Fertility is dropping around the world so the migrations will also lessen. Always increasing real estate costs and stagnant wages make it hard for immigrants to secure a living. EU population is expected to start falling within 30 yrs max.
whoisjuan 8y ago
So what? What's the point of these articles? You could write the same about anything."I cleaned houses for a week and it was a nightmare", "I worked as a store clerk for a week and it was a nightmare"... This is cheap click-bait journalism trying to get on the wave of writing something about Amazon labor conditions. Modern American journalism is a joke. Many things in this country are wrong and people can and should rightfully complain/voice their concerns about those things, but this type of journalism is just the equivalent of setting a house on fire just to have the exclusive that you were the one who covered it first. How can we trust any news outlet right or left, if their motivation is only just clicks and impressions?
- erentz 8y ago
  A lot of people don’t necessarily know about the working conditions of these employees. It’s perfectly in line with the purpose of journalism to report on such things. In a time past it might have been an article about the conditions faced by coal miners. Or lax conditions at an assembly of plant. Etc.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    And actually checking it out first hand seems like a pretty good effort at journalism as opposed to just writing a "think piece" from the comfort of the news room.
- yborg 8y ago
  The difference is that Amazon is crushing local store retail everywhere it does business, which is everywhere, and spends large amounts of effort on brand management to softpedal the fact that this domination is largely thanks to its ability to squeeze more from its labor force. We'll leave aside how this crushing of local retail was also aided by its ability to avoid local taxes for many years while it was growing. All of this makes it very fair game for criticism, especially when Amazon touts the "great earnings" of being a freelance driver for them. If there was some giant corporation that was dominating house cleaning nationally and touting the great pay of cleaning toilets for them as a freelancer, that would certainly warrant some inspection, too.
crazygringo 8y ago
Comments here so far seem oddly dismissive of the article ("what's the point", "entitled millenial", "jealous", "click-bait"). But they're missing the larger critical points which are very newsworthy: - The author almost injured themselves with an overly heavy box because Amazon didn't provide them with a dolly, warn them they needed one, and if they did injure themselves the medical bills are their own - Amazon is asking them to deliver packages where parking without getting a ticket is a logistical impossibility and risk making negative $ for the day due to tickets - These kinds of safety and minimum wage regulations which have been hard-won over the past decades are being completely avoided by Amazon by (possibly wrongly/illegally) classifying them as independent contractors, which seems to be a scandal that laws/regulations ought to fix, but compulsory arbitration may be preventing class-action lawsuits which would otherwise correct the situation
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  > The author almost injured themselves with an overly heavy box because Amazon didn't provide them with a dolly, warn them they needed one, and if they did injure themselves the medical bills are their own Why is it someone else's fault if you lift something too heavy for you? What is "too heavy" is a fairly personal thing. It's trivial to tell if something is too heavy for you. Do I need to explain how? As for not injuring yourself from lifting, that's a skill everyone should learn by themselves, like how to not fall down the stairs. It's not someone else's fault.
  - xg15 8y ago
    Because they gave them the package and the order to deliver it?
    - skookumchuck 8y ago
      If the box is too heavy, refuse to lift it. It's not hard. Amazon can't force you to. If a dolly will help, you can pick one up for 40 bucks or so (ironically, from Amazon!). I keep one around, because I find it useful. Many occupations require you to furnish your own tools (and if you're an auto mechanic, that can run into thousands). I've bought and used personal equipment at every job I've ever had.
lisper 8y ago
Our economy, indeed much of our societal ethos in general, is rooted in the assumption that labor is a scarce commodity. This was true throughout most of human history, but it started becoming less true with the advent of the industrial revolution, and AI and automation will soon drive the last nail in the labor-scarcity coffin. When labor is scarce, there are two consequences of that scarcity that make our current societal structure work: first, anyone capable of working possesses an inalienable resource (their own labor) that they can exchange for other goods and services in order to survive, and second, basing your economy on this kind of exchange (as opposed to, for example, slave labor) encourages people to work and be productive. But when labor is no longer scarce, all of this changes in radical ways. Humans in general no longer have access to an inalienable source of wealth, and wealth becomes rooted exclusively in ownership rather than production. We essentially revert back to a slave-like economy, with machines playing the role of chattel slaves. But for non-owners, for people without capital, there is no longer any recourse. Sooner or later, something is going to have to give. There are only a very few things that humans can still do with more economic effectiveness than machines: drive vehicles, pick fruit, clean houses, and fold shirts. Really, that's about it. And technology is busily chipping away at the first one. Sooner or later, we are going to have to make a fundamental change in how our society is structured, or things will get very unpleasant for a lot of folks.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  > Really, that's about it. The roads are clogged every day with people driving to work. Very few of them are driving to a job folding shirts and cleaning houses.
  - lisper 8y ago
    > Very few of them are driving to a job folding shirts and cleaning houses. I think you'd be surprised how many of those people are doing just that. And you left out the third category of work: driving itself. But I did leave out one important category: work requiring interpersonal interactions, like sales, particularly retail sales. But that is starting to go away too.
gniv 8y ago
> (None of the 19 videos I had to watch to be a Flex driver recommended bringing a delivery cart or a dolly.) I wonder why that is. Do they think it's so obvious that it's not worth mentioning, or they really don't care?
- noobermin 8y ago
  Given the myriad articles I've read about working conditions in Amazon across the organization, it's most likely the latter.
pfortuny 8y ago
“Flex is necessary.” I stopped there.
jarym 8y ago
Some corporations derive a huge benefit from the gig economy - either as a central part of their business (Uber drivers) or enticing more customers from competitors (Amazon with great a delivery service). The losses on the gig worker (benefits, holiday entitlement, etc.) need to be borne by someone - and it doesn't make sense, in my view, to make either the gig work or the government (the wider public) pay for it. I would suggest that all companies using gig workers (anyone doing work for a corporation without a proper employment contract) need to pay in to a mandatory fund to cover the lost benefits. To me its obvious that the cost should be borne by whoever is extracting the greatest benefit.
gnicholas 8y ago
I recently saw a 6-year old boy delivering a package for Amazon. He got out of a regular van, dropped off the package, and bounded back to the car. I guess he was probably the child of one of these Flex contractors. This happened just off Sand Hill Rd., as it happens.
vinni2 8y ago
Reminds me of this episode from Vice news [0]. They don’t get paid for car maintenance, gas or any other unforeseen expenses while delivering packages. [0] https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/kzyw4y/amazon-is-imitating-uber-to-drive-down-the-cost-of-delivering-goods https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/kzyw4y/amazon-is-imitati...
iamleppert 8y ago
A lot of jobs suck. I worked at a KFC for 3 years and a Gameworks, two full time jobs, for 3 years before I began my tech career. I got paid $6.50/hr at KFC and $9.00/hr at Gameworks. No health insurance, benefits, I had to use my own car often to do stuff for them both. It was hell and I hated it. It’s sad but these jobs always exist and probably will for at least the near future. That said, Amazon should be doing a better job to educate people on how to be successful in these jobs and should adapt the jobs depending on city. It makes no sense to have people driving around in their own cars in SF delivering packages. They could go a long way by hiring bike couriers and doing a better job at distribution. It sure doesn’t sound like last mile delivery when they are forcing people to drive down to south SF to get the stuff. If I was an engineer at Amazon working on this flex program I’d be embarrassed. If you filter out the entitled and emotional undertone of the author there are many matter of fact things that are just poorly designed and executed on the designers of this system. Sitting at home and refreshing an app? Really? That hour you keep people occupied with a pointless task because of your poor design is an hour you’ve burned of their time that could have been spent doing something productive for either themselves or Amazon. Not doing address validation, poor distribution logistics, poor use of labor. I guess there is no external pressure to fix anything until they have burned through the labor pool in SF and no one wants to work with the dysfunction? Wonder when that will be...
- sumoboy 8y ago
  Kind of a wild west for DIY local delivery jobs. I've talked to the UPS guy several times about these new logistics businesses that have popped up as delivery partners for Amazon and he's said it's a sh%tshow sending drivers off to delivery all over the city, total chaos. Density populated areas, airports, sporting events, etc all have had to make changes to deal with Uber and Lyft traffic so the city handing out parking tickets doesn't solve much. Seems like heavily populated city addresses & building owners need to solve the last 10 yards because it's not going to slow down.

136 points by yarapavan 8y ago

I doubt this is a new observation, but what strikes me is that the US employment system is based on benefits via employment (healthcare, retirement). The current "gig economy" trend removes these benefits from employment, and with a government currently opposed to public benefits, the US could be headed towards a problem within a single generation. This race to the bottom (disruption) seems counter productive for anything but short term investment.

bproven 8y ago
Good point.. >This race to the bottom (disruption) seems counter productive for anything but short term investment. And you know who most benefits from this type of investment (basically the ones with the big money to invest with little to no real risk to their way of life). So I don't see it ending any time soon...
- noobermin 8y ago
  This has happened before in history, and it doesn't turn out well for the people with big money.
  - n-exploit 8y ago
    Big money is doesn't matter when its denominated in fiat.
  - andrepd 8y ago
    Here's hoping.
maxerickson 8y ago
There's already tens of millions of people with no employer provided healthcare or retirement savings. The gig economy is reducing wages and stability.
- bsg75 8y ago
  > The gig economy is reducing wages and stability. Edit: And in turn purposefully growing an existing problem.
ghaff 8y ago
In the case of health insurance, it mostly came about because of wage controls during WW II. Companies couldn't offer more money in a tight labor market but they were allowed to offer fringe benefits like insurance. 401(k)'s history is almost wacky. It was an obscure provision in 1978 tax law and a benefits consultant figured out a way to turn it into something that companies could easily offer to employees as a tax-advantaged benefit. Of course, once a benefit becomes the norm, it's almost impossible for individual firms to not offer it.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  > Companies couldn't offer more money in a tight labor market It was illegal for them to offer more money - Roosevelt instituted wage fixing. Offering benefits was a way around the law. > Of course, once a benefit becomes the norm, it's almost impossible for individual firms to not offer it. The real reason is that health insurance paid from pre-tax money by the employer makes it cheaper than being post-tax money by the employee. It's the tax system that binds workers to jobs via health care benefits. Another reason people want wage increases in the form of employer-paid benefits is then they get to lie about the terrible pay they get, because they never ever account for the value of the benefits. For example, whenever the teachers complain about their salaries, never mentioned are the generous benefits package they get.
  - malcolmgreaves 8y ago
    Teachers don't get paid enough.
    - YokoZar 8y ago
      While true, they get paid substantially more than people with the same salary and no benefits.
      - ddingus 8y ago
        And that is a problem too. Still, teachers are not paid enough.
noobermin 8y ago
It just seems easier to just give these benefits from public institutions then so employers don't need to give them.
- URSpider94 8y ago
  “Easier” in the sense that it removes the illogical connection between employment and access to health care. Definitely not easier in the sense that a sizeable plurality of the country, currently in control of both houses of Congress, the Presidency, the Supreme Court, and the majority of state legislative and executive branches, think this is a terrible idea that they equate with creeping Communism.
  - orangecat 8y ago
    Or, we could have people buy health insurance with their own money, and provide assistance to those who can't afford it. The same thing we do with food, housing, transportation, and basically everything else.
- walshemj 8y ago
  So your arguing for the NHS model brave choice in the US system and also doesn't work well unless you strip a lot ow power from the individual states. The German style system is as probably the system you could have got if people weren't so obsessed with Obamas skin color.
BurningFrog 8y ago
Yeah, the gig economy in many ways is better suited for the average industrialized welfare state.
pergadad 8y ago
Probably this is one reason why gig economy is much bigger in the US than elsewhere (excluding cross-border services delivered from poor to rich countries). Airbnb is big in other places, but Uber much less so.

amarkov 8y ago

I'm sure it's a nightmare for a professional journalist. And I don't mean that as an insult - it'd be a nightmare for me too. But you know what's more of a nightmare? Driving around to every retail outlet in a 30 mile radius, trying to convince them that you can be the most submissive and obedient out of the 200 applicants. It's hard to begrudge the gig economy for providing an alternative to that.

nickthemagicman 8y ago
Yep. Or Wal Mart. And people are trapped in these jobs.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  You'd probably make more at Walmart and with a more stable/ consistent incomw vs the "gig economy"
  - imnicnic 8y ago
    Gigs are highly addictive
    - ghaff 8y ago
      People do at least own their own schedule which is a big difference from much of retail. That said, as this article notes, your cost to do these gigs is often higher than people think it will be (or even realize it is).
      - orangecat 8y ago
        People do at least own their own schedule which is a big difference from much of retail. Right, and this can easily be underappreciated by those of us working in environments where it's hardly ever a problem if you need to take a few hours to deal with personal issues.
    - paulie_a 8y ago

hamandcheese 8y ago

> Amazon also does not break down how much he receives in tips and how much he receives in pay from the company—for all he knows, people are tipping him $20 and Amazon is paying him less than minimum wage. Wow. Do other gig economy jobs do this? Uber and Lyft? I may just start carrying cash to leave tips now.

ummonk 8y ago
I believe Lyft does not take any cut from the tip.

lobotryas 8y ago

Am I the only one who felt how jealous the author was of the people to whom he was delivering these packages? Someone else made deliberate life choices and maybe sacrificed a lot to be in a position they are at a prestigious tech company with a good salary. Heck, even if that person just got plain lucky, I still don't see where dwelling on their success vs the author working a gig job gets anyone anywhere. I'm not jealous of movie or sports stars and the millions they earn. Where does this person get to think life is unfair because they never applied to/were never hired by Google or the like?

tranchms 8y ago

This article reads like it was written by an entitled millennial (i.e. someone who never had to make sacrifices and perform hard and unappreciated work to enjoy basic comforts). Every job is optional. If it’s beneath you, don’t take it. Hard work is hard work. It’s above minimum wage, and you’re not being abused, then what’s the problem? You don’t get to dictate your value. You earn what you’re willing to work for. What did she think she was signing up for? Find another job if it doesn’t suit you. No job is perfect. There are legions of Flex employees who are grateful for the flexibility this job provides. If you want to make more money, educate yourself, network, apply to different jobs, work hard, be persistent. People are so myopic about work these days. Opportunities are out there if you work to find them. The same work ethic that it takes to find those great opportunities will make you successful in life.

polskibus 8y ago
Problem with this reasoning is that today, the population is decreasing in most developed countries, meaning that older generation will beg the younger more and more. People have less and less kids, so the job market is shrinking.
- tranchms 8y ago
  Population is decreasing in most developed countries? Where did you get that idea? Birth rates may decrease, but that’s why we have immigration. Men and women both work these days, doubling the labor pool. I don’t understand this comment.
  - polskibus 8y ago
    There's a lot of workforce shortage in many places in the EU (esp. smaller towns) partially because of low fertility and partially because of intra-EU migrations. Fertility is dropping around the world so the migrations will also lessen. Always increasing real estate costs and stagnant wages make it hard for immigrants to secure a living. EU population is expected to start falling within 30 yrs max.

whoisjuan 8y ago

So what? What's the point of these articles? You could write the same about anything."I cleaned houses for a week and it was a nightmare", "I worked as a store clerk for a week and it was a nightmare"... This is cheap click-bait journalism trying to get on the wave of writing something about Amazon labor conditions. Modern American journalism is a joke. Many things in this country are wrong and people can and should rightfully complain/voice their concerns about those things, but this type of journalism is just the equivalent of setting a house on fire just to have the exclusive that you were the one who covered it first. How can we trust any news outlet right or left, if their motivation is only just clicks and impressions?

erentz 8y ago
A lot of people don’t necessarily know about the working conditions of these employees. It’s perfectly in line with the purpose of journalism to report on such things. In a time past it might have been an article about the conditions faced by coal miners. Or lax conditions at an assembly of plant. Etc.
- ghaff 8y ago
  And actually checking it out first hand seems like a pretty good effort at journalism as opposed to just writing a "think piece" from the comfort of the news room.
yborg 8y ago
The difference is that Amazon is crushing local store retail everywhere it does business, which is everywhere, and spends large amounts of effort on brand management to softpedal the fact that this domination is largely thanks to its ability to squeeze more from its labor force. We'll leave aside how this crushing of local retail was also aided by its ability to avoid local taxes for many years while it was growing. All of this makes it very fair game for criticism, especially when Amazon touts the "great earnings" of being a freelance driver for them. If there was some giant corporation that was dominating house cleaning nationally and touting the great pay of cleaning toilets for them as a freelancer, that would certainly warrant some inspection, too.

crazygringo 8y ago

Comments here so far seem oddly dismissive of the article ("what's the point", "entitled millenial", "jealous", "click-bait"). But they're missing the larger critical points which are very newsworthy: - The author almost injured themselves with an overly heavy box because Amazon didn't provide them with a dolly, warn them they needed one, and if they did injure themselves the medical bills are their own - Amazon is asking them to deliver packages where parking without getting a ticket is a logistical impossibility and risk making negative $ for the day due to tickets - These kinds of safety and minimum wage regulations which have been hard-won over the past decades are being completely avoided by Amazon by (possibly wrongly/illegally) classifying them as independent contractors, which seems to be a scandal that laws/regulations ought to fix, but compulsory arbitration may be preventing class-action lawsuits which would otherwise correct the situation

skookumchuck 8y ago
> The author almost injured themselves with an overly heavy box because Amazon didn't provide them with a dolly, warn them they needed one, and if they did injure themselves the medical bills are their own Why is it someone else's fault if you lift something too heavy for you? What is "too heavy" is a fairly personal thing. It's trivial to tell if something is too heavy for you. Do I need to explain how? As for not injuring yourself from lifting, that's a skill everyone should learn by themselves, like how to not fall down the stairs. It's not someone else's fault.
- xg15 8y ago
  Because they gave them the package and the order to deliver it?
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    If the box is too heavy, refuse to lift it. It's not hard. Amazon can't force you to. If a dolly will help, you can pick one up for 40 bucks or so (ironically, from Amazon!). I keep one around, because I find it useful. Many occupations require you to furnish your own tools (and if you're an auto mechanic, that can run into thousands). I've bought and used personal equipment at every job I've ever had.

lisper 8y ago

Our economy, indeed much of our societal ethos in general, is rooted in the assumption that labor is a scarce commodity. This was true throughout most of human history, but it started becoming less true with the advent of the industrial revolution, and AI and automation will soon drive the last nail in the labor-scarcity coffin. When labor is scarce, there are two consequences of that scarcity that make our current societal structure work: first, anyone capable of working possesses an inalienable resource (their own labor) that they can exchange for other goods and services in order to survive, and second, basing your economy on this kind of exchange (as opposed to, for example, slave labor) encourages people to work and be productive. But when labor is no longer scarce, all of this changes in radical ways. Humans in general no longer have access to an inalienable source of wealth, and wealth becomes rooted exclusively in ownership rather than production. We essentially revert back to a slave-like economy, with machines playing the role of chattel slaves. But for non-owners, for people without capital, there is no longer any recourse. Sooner or later, something is going to have to give. There are only a very few things that humans can still do with more economic effectiveness than machines: drive vehicles, pick fruit, clean houses, and fold shirts. Really, that's about it. And technology is busily chipping away at the first one. Sooner or later, we are going to have to make a fundamental change in how our society is structured, or things will get very unpleasant for a lot of folks.

skookumchuck 8y ago
> Really, that's about it. The roads are clogged every day with people driving to work. Very few of them are driving to a job folding shirts and cleaning houses.
- lisper 8y ago
  > Very few of them are driving to a job folding shirts and cleaning houses. I think you'd be surprised how many of those people are doing just that. And you left out the third category of work: driving itself. But I did leave out one important category: work requiring interpersonal interactions, like sales, particularly retail sales. But that is starting to go away too.

gniv 8y ago

> (None of the 19 videos I had to watch to be a Flex driver recommended bringing a delivery cart or a dolly.) I wonder why that is. Do they think it's so obvious that it's not worth mentioning, or they really don't care?

noobermin 8y ago
Given the myriad articles I've read about working conditions in Amazon across the organization, it's most likely the latter.

pfortuny 8y ago

“Flex is necessary.” I stopped there.

jarym 8y ago

Some corporations derive a huge benefit from the gig economy - either as a central part of their business (Uber drivers) or enticing more customers from competitors (Amazon with great a delivery service). The losses on the gig worker (benefits, holiday entitlement, etc.) need to be borne by someone - and it doesn't make sense, in my view, to make either the gig work or the government (the wider public) pay for it. I would suggest that all companies using gig workers (anyone doing work for a corporation without a proper employment contract) need to pay in to a mandatory fund to cover the lost benefits. To me its obvious that the cost should be borne by whoever is extracting the greatest benefit.

gnicholas 8y ago

I recently saw a 6-year old boy delivering a package for Amazon. He got out of a regular van, dropped off the package, and bounded back to the car. I guess he was probably the child of one of these Flex contractors. This happened just off Sand Hill Rd., as it happens.

vinni2 8y ago

Reminds me of this episode from Vice news [0]. They don’t get paid for car maintenance, gas or any other unforeseen expenses while delivering packages. [0] https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/kzyw4y/amazon-is-imitating-uber-to-drive-down-the-cost-of-delivering-goods https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/kzyw4y/amazon-is-imitati...

iamleppert 8y ago

A lot of jobs suck. I worked at a KFC for 3 years and a Gameworks, two full time jobs, for 3 years before I began my tech career. I got paid $6.50/hr at KFC and $9.00/hr at Gameworks. No health insurance, benefits, I had to use my own car often to do stuff for them both. It was hell and I hated it. It’s sad but these jobs always exist and probably will for at least the near future. That said, Amazon should be doing a better job to educate people on how to be successful in these jobs and should adapt the jobs depending on city. It makes no sense to have people driving around in their own cars in SF delivering packages. They could go a long way by hiring bike couriers and doing a better job at distribution. It sure doesn’t sound like last mile delivery when they are forcing people to drive down to south SF to get the stuff. If I was an engineer at Amazon working on this flex program I’d be embarrassed. If you filter out the entitled and emotional undertone of the author there are many matter of fact things that are just poorly designed and executed on the designers of this system. Sitting at home and refreshing an app? Really? That hour you keep people occupied with a pointless task because of your poor design is an hour you’ve burned of their time that could have been spent doing something productive for either themselves or Amazon. Not doing address validation, poor distribution logistics, poor use of labor. I guess there is no external pressure to fix anything until they have burned through the labor pool in SF and no one wants to work with the dysfunction? Wonder when that will be...

sumoboy 8y ago
Kind of a wild west for DIY local delivery jobs. I've talked to the UPS guy several times about these new logistics businesses that have popped up as delivery partners for Amazon and he's said it's a sh%tshow sending drivers off to delivery all over the city, total chaos. Density populated areas, airports, sporting events, etc all have had to make changes to deal with Uber and Lyft traffic so the city handing out parking tickets doesn't solve much. Seems like heavily populated city addresses & building owners need to solve the last 10 yards because it's not going to slow down.