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Not to derail but I've been running ownCloud at home since 2013 and have considered switching since the fork but wanted to see Nextcloud mature a bit more. Any

Not to derail but I've been running ownCloud at home since 2013 and have considered switching since the fork but wanted to see Nextcloud mature a bit more. Any long-time ownCloud users have experience with switching and can offer advice or info on some of the pitfalls, if any? What are upgrades going forward really like with incremental updates and major version releases etc? I often end up holding ownCloud updates back in apt as there's always this sense of dread that I'll have trouble getting the app out of maintenance mode. Versions 9+ have been better but upgrades sucked in the beginning even as a home user not using disk encryption.

kardos 8y ago
Nextcloud user since v11 or so (small installation, <10 users). Updates have been painless, the web interface for updating has worked fine each time with nothing to clean up by hand. Its given me remarkably little problems after running it for ~18 months.
- Semaphor 8y ago
  It's the same for me. With ownCloud I, too, dreaded updates. But since I switched to nextcloud, updates have become simple and easy
moonfern 8y ago
We have about 600 users, most of them use webdav. We just did a painless upgrade.
alistproducer2 8y ago
I set up owncloud in an rpi3 a couple months ago but really wasn't satisfied with the lack of apps - the lack of video conferencing to be specific among other things. Switching over to nextcloud was a couple hour affair because I had to rename tables and other nit picks. I like nextcloud a lot more and it's performance is great, especially since I started using redis (that was a huge pain to install on the rpi though). I only use Google Drive as an encrypted backup. I've replaced everything it did with nextcloud + collabra + talk.
- Pistos2 8y ago
  Anecdata point: I had a lot of trouble setting up Nextcloud Talk with my own STUN & TURN servers. Even after I'd gotten that going, NCT video calls have been extremely unreliable, with it fully working only maybe 1 in 5 times, or worse. I still don't know why. Could be dependent on the kind of Internet each side is connected to (home network behind ISP router vs. coffee shop vs. corporate network with potential firewall, etc. etc.)
  - alistproducer2 8y ago
    Where are you hosting your turn server and what software are you using?
    - Pistos2 8y ago
      I'm using coturn for TURN and STUN, and they are on the same VPS that hosts the Nextcloud code, version 13. If you actually want to help me solve the problems, send me a DM on github (username Pistos), and I can give you more of the technical details.
      - icebraining 8y ago
        I don't think Github has DMs.
        Pistos2 8y ago
        Yep, you're right. My mistake. But we've been touch by other means.
      - jospoortvliet 8y ago
        From what I understand of STUN and TURN, there is absolutely no point running STUN an TURN on the same server as Nextcloud - if you do, you could just as well skip running them in the first place. STUN and TURN only help if they are on a dedicated box, as close to a internet root server as possible, ideally in a big datacenter somewhere on the internet backbone. They can't be behind firewalls and layers of routers... So your performance will already improve if you delete your local STUN and TURN and use the Nextcloud STUN as our free STUN runs in a big data center. Then you have to find a TURN somewhere that you can run also close to the backbone, or try using without... Yes, running STUN and TURN properly is a pita. I'm no super expert so check what I'm saying, but this is based on my best understanding of what these do and I had to write our documentation for customers about our Spreed High Performance Backend which, among other things, does STUN and TURN ;-) (Nextcloud marketing dude here)
amaccuish 8y ago
I wouldn't install from a repo, much better to let (own/next)cloud manage itself. I migrated from owncloud and glad I did so, I get all the enterprise features like SAML SSO for free.
Walkman 8y ago
I did a couple of upgrades of Nextcloud; one major and some minor, and the upgrade process is unbelievably fast, painless and stable. Never had any problem.
jerf 8y ago
I'm using ownCloud on one system and considering migrating it to another; should I switch to NextCloud instead? Seeking opinions. For myself, my usage is small enough that I don't care if my "migration" is that I just copy over the two user's worth of data I have in the file sharing and set up the one shared folder I have again by hand. (It's a home cloud, not corporate.) In fact in some ways it'll be easier than what I was planning on doing.
- jospoortvliet 8y ago
  try nextcloud.com/migration - but keep in mind that it is slowly getting harder and harder to switch. We try to keep it easy and smooth but ownCloud is backporting a lot of potentially breaking changes in their 'stable' branch, rewriting low-level code etc. Their engineers are of course new to the code base so they make, well, different choices than we would make :D While feature-wise, we're still not really missing anything oC has, the underlying codebase is really diverging, we're not really merging any code from oC since a year now... Migration will become a real, risky pita at some point I'm afraid. Apps are already dropping compatibility and mobile apps, too.
  - jerf 8y ago
    Thank you. Like I said, a brute-force migration for me isn't too big a deal. Half the work for things like switching apps on my phone I'd have to do anyhow.
    - alistproducer2 8y ago
      I just did a switch from oc 10 to nc 13. The docs work fine but are missing some potential table column additions (mostly with apps) which are needed to get things working smoothly. Thankfully the logs will tell you exactly what needs to be done.
- BrandoElFollito 8y ago
  You may want to consider Seafile. It is specialized in file synchronization (so no calendar, etc.) but I hapilly moved from Owncloud some time ago and it is great (=smaller, specialized)
mikenew 8y ago
I've had a small setup running for quite a while now. I let the package manager take care of updates (I'm using Arch ARM) and then log in through the web client to let it finish updating the database. I think I had one or two rough updates after migrating from owncloud to nextcloud, but since then it's been extremely painless. Not sure how things are now, but I remember dreading each update back when I was using owncloud.
gerdesj 8y ago
I have a personal one at home with few users but >1Tb in use, including wifey's rather hefty and my smaller photo collection which is sync'd from phones using Foldersync Pro on Android. I also have a work one that has ~30 users and about 1/2Tb and rising. I have also installed a system for a customer with >700 users for pushing lots of centrally managed .pdfs to tablets. Two of them are behind HA Proxy. All started off life as OwnCloud v8 and all are now NC v13. I've never used apt, I always use source .tar.gz - it is just a web app. I keep a separate disc with data, html, tmp (for working etc source packages) and mount it to /srv/nextcloud. I then symlink /srv/nextcloud/html to /var/www/html/nextcloud to avoid surprises (where the hell is the bloody app!) The config does need a bit of care but the docs are great. I do recommend that you add in redis etc and all the php caching etc. Also, get a Lets Encrypt cert on it. Upgrades? I bit the bullet and tried out the auto upgrade button in the web interface on my largest install after doing a VM snapshot of course. I now always do it that way because in the past I generally end up re learning how to do it each time. You do need to get the file permissions correct for the web app to be able to update itself. I have had problems and errors sometimes but the forums and docs have always given me a fix. Learn how to do a dump/restore of the database (you should ideally be using MariaDB and know a bit about it) and learn about the occ command eg: # sudo -u www-data /var/www/nextcloud/occ status --output=json_pretty The NextCloud desktop app works well on both Windows and Linux (I don't have any Mac experience) As I mentioned before, I use Foldersync Pro on Android for photos because you can do a one way sync, with deletes on the phone not being mirrored to the repository (phones have rather less storage than desktops or my servers).

kardos 8y ago

Nextcloud user since v11 or so (small installation, <10 users). Updates have been painless, the web interface for updating has worked fine each time with nothing to clean up by hand. Its given me remarkably little problems after running it for ~18 months.

Semaphor 8y ago
It's the same for me. With ownCloud I, too, dreaded updates. But since I switched to nextcloud, updates have become simple and easy

moonfern 8y ago

We have about 600 users, most of them use webdav. We just did a painless upgrade.

alistproducer2 8y ago

I set up owncloud in an rpi3 a couple months ago but really wasn't satisfied with the lack of apps - the lack of video conferencing to be specific among other things. Switching over to nextcloud was a couple hour affair because I had to rename tables and other nit picks. I like nextcloud a lot more and it's performance is great, especially since I started using redis (that was a huge pain to install on the rpi though). I only use Google Drive as an encrypted backup. I've replaced everything it did with nextcloud + collabra + talk.

Pistos2 8y ago
Anecdata point: I had a lot of trouble setting up Nextcloud Talk with my own STUN & TURN servers. Even after I'd gotten that going, NCT video calls have been extremely unreliable, with it fully working only maybe 1 in 5 times, or worse. I still don't know why. Could be dependent on the kind of Internet each side is connected to (home network behind ISP router vs. coffee shop vs. corporate network with potential firewall, etc. etc.)
- alistproducer2 8y ago
  Where are you hosting your turn server and what software are you using?
  - Pistos2 8y ago
    I'm using coturn for TURN and STUN, and they are on the same VPS that hosts the Nextcloud code, version 13. If you actually want to help me solve the problems, send me a DM on github (username Pistos), and I can give you more of the technical details.
    - icebraining 8y ago
      I don't think Github has DMs.
      - Pistos2 8y ago
        Yep, you're right. My mistake. But we've been touch by other means.
    - jospoortvliet 8y ago
      From what I understand of STUN and TURN, there is absolutely no point running STUN an TURN on the same server as Nextcloud - if you do, you could just as well skip running them in the first place. STUN and TURN only help if they are on a dedicated box, as close to a internet root server as possible, ideally in a big datacenter somewhere on the internet backbone. They can't be behind firewalls and layers of routers... So your performance will already improve if you delete your local STUN and TURN and use the Nextcloud STUN as our free STUN runs in a big data center. Then you have to find a TURN somewhere that you can run also close to the backbone, or try using without... Yes, running STUN and TURN properly is a pita. I'm no super expert so check what I'm saying, but this is based on my best understanding of what these do and I had to write our documentation for customers about our Spreed High Performance Backend which, among other things, does STUN and TURN ;-) (Nextcloud marketing dude here)

amaccuish 8y ago

I wouldn't install from a repo, much better to let (own/next)cloud manage itself. I migrated from owncloud and glad I did so, I get all the enterprise features like SAML SSO for free.

Walkman 8y ago

I did a couple of upgrades of Nextcloud; one major and some minor, and the upgrade process is unbelievably fast, painless and stable. Never had any problem.

jerf 8y ago

I'm using ownCloud on one system and considering migrating it to another; should I switch to NextCloud instead? Seeking opinions. For myself, my usage is small enough that I don't care if my "migration" is that I just copy over the two user's worth of data I have in the file sharing and set up the one shared folder I have again by hand. (It's a home cloud, not corporate.) In fact in some ways it'll be easier than what I was planning on doing.

jospoortvliet 8y ago
try nextcloud.com/migration - but keep in mind that it is slowly getting harder and harder to switch. We try to keep it easy and smooth but ownCloud is backporting a lot of potentially breaking changes in their 'stable' branch, rewriting low-level code etc. Their engineers are of course new to the code base so they make, well, different choices than we would make :D While feature-wise, we're still not really missing anything oC has, the underlying codebase is really diverging, we're not really merging any code from oC since a year now... Migration will become a real, risky pita at some point I'm afraid. Apps are already dropping compatibility and mobile apps, too.
- jerf 8y ago
  Thank you. Like I said, a brute-force migration for me isn't too big a deal. Half the work for things like switching apps on my phone I'd have to do anyhow.
  - alistproducer2 8y ago
    I just did a switch from oc 10 to nc 13. The docs work fine but are missing some potential table column additions (mostly with apps) which are needed to get things working smoothly. Thankfully the logs will tell you exactly what needs to be done.
BrandoElFollito 8y ago
You may want to consider Seafile. It is specialized in file synchronization (so no calendar, etc.) but I hapilly moved from Owncloud some time ago and it is great (=smaller, specialized)

mikenew 8y ago

I've had a small setup running for quite a while now. I let the package manager take care of updates (I'm using Arch ARM) and then log in through the web client to let it finish updating the database. I think I had one or two rough updates after migrating from owncloud to nextcloud, but since then it's been extremely painless. Not sure how things are now, but I remember dreading each update back when I was using owncloud.

gerdesj 8y ago

I have a personal one at home with few users but >1Tb in use, including wifey's rather hefty and my smaller photo collection which is sync'd from phones using Foldersync Pro on Android. I also have a work one that has ~30 users and about 1/2Tb and rising. I have also installed a system for a customer with >700 users for pushing lots of centrally managed .pdfs to tablets. Two of them are behind HA Proxy. All started off life as OwnCloud v8 and all are now NC v13. I've never used apt, I always use source .tar.gz - it is just a web app. I keep a separate disc with data, html, tmp (for working etc source packages) and mount it to /srv/nextcloud. I then symlink /srv/nextcloud/html to /var/www/html/nextcloud to avoid surprises (where the hell is the bloody app!) The config does need a bit of care but the docs are great. I do recommend that you add in redis etc and all the php caching etc. Also, get a Lets Encrypt cert on it. Upgrades? I bit the bullet and tried out the auto upgrade button in the web interface on my largest install after doing a VM snapshot of course. I now always do it that way because in the past I generally end up re learning how to do it each time. You do need to get the file permissions correct for the web app to be able to update itself. I have had problems and errors sometimes but the forums and docs have always given me a fix. Learn how to do a dump/restore of the database (you should ideally be using MariaDB and know a bit about it) and learn about the occ command eg: # sudo -u www-data /var/www/nextcloud/occ status --output=json_pretty The NextCloud desktop app works well on both Windows and Linux (I don't have any Mac experience) As I mentioned before, I use Foldersync Pro on Android for photos because you can do a one way sync, with deletes on the phone not being mirrored to the repository (phones have rather less storage than desktops or my servers).