4 ms·

While there are certainly broader insights to be made, one tidbit I think I noticed that interested me had to do with Axe. Between the two games, we saw Axe pl

While there are certainly broader insights to be made, one tidbit I think I noticed that interested me had to do with Axe. Between the two games, we saw Axe played by both the human team and the AI team. When played by the humans, blink-calls were completely shutdown by the AI's superhuman counterinitiations. That made enough sense. When the Axe was played by the AI though, I don't recall Axe ever even attempting any blink-calls. I'm curious if this might be the result of the AI overfitting to itself -- at AI reaction speeds, blink-calls are not a very useful maneuver, and thus the AI learns not to perform them. Against a group of humans though, Axe's blink-call initiations are arguably the hero's biggest selling point. We didn't get to see most of the hero pool, but I wonder how much the AI overfitting to AI playstyles will hinder the bots against humans in the future. Of course, the bots have many other issues which loom larger atm imo but I felt interested in enough in this tidbit to point it out.

emilsedgh 8y ago
Or maybe the blink-then-call sequence was not tried by the bot in the training. Therefore it doesnt never got rated. Thats the thing I tried to understand. The blink-to-call is very specific of a sequence. Youd have to blink in middle of several enemy units and call them. What are the chances of the bot doing that randomly and therefor understanding its value? Specially if the bot realizes random blinks are a watse of resource or jumping in middle of enemy is a bd strategy, the chanced of it trying that wih Axe and therefore learning it gets lower.
- Kagerjay 8y ago
  Blink calls seems to be a very predictable strategy for axe. If there's more than 2 enemys heros next to each other, with X number of teammates within close proximity to deal support DPS, blink call. How much training datasets were these bots given though?
robryan 8y ago
Axe also seemed to have no idea how it's ult worked. Would simply use the Culling Blade for the small amount of damage each time rather than waiting for the hero to get below the health threshold.
psandersen 8y ago
The reaction speed should be random (80-200ms or more - maybe quite a tail latency) instead of fixed during training to be more consistent with human behaviour and allow abilities to sometimes work so the bots are more likely to sometimes try abilities when the payoff makes sense... Dota is balanced around human reaction speeds so it makes sense to have an equivalent reaction distribution, otherwise, it gets arbitrary where a bot trained on 200 ms may behave differently to a 20ms bot.

emilsedgh 8y ago

Or maybe the blink-then-call sequence was not tried by the bot in the training. Therefore it doesnt never got rated. Thats the thing I tried to understand. The blink-to-call is very specific of a sequence. Youd have to blink in middle of several enemy units and call them. What are the chances of the bot doing that randomly and therefor understanding its value? Specially if the bot realizes random blinks are a watse of resource or jumping in middle of enemy is a bd strategy, the chanced of it trying that wih Axe and therefore learning it gets lower.

Kagerjay 8y ago
Blink calls seems to be a very predictable strategy for axe. If there's more than 2 enemys heros next to each other, with X number of teammates within close proximity to deal support DPS, blink call. How much training datasets were these bots given though?

robryan 8y ago

Axe also seemed to have no idea how it's ult worked. Would simply use the Culling Blade for the small amount of damage each time rather than waiting for the hero to get below the health threshold.

psandersen 8y ago

The reaction speed should be random (80-200ms or more - maybe quite a tail latency) instead of fixed during training to be more consistent with human behaviour and allow abilities to sometimes work so the bots are more likely to sometimes try abilities when the payoff makes sense... Dota is balanced around human reaction speeds so it makes sense to have an equivalent reaction distribution, otherwise, it gets arbitrary where a bot trained on 200 ms may behave differently to a 20ms bot.