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Tell the Senate to Pass a Strong Election Security Bill

47 points by raleighm 8y ago

tropo 8y ago
Nobody dares confront the biggest problem: absentee ballots.
- diafygi 8y ago
  I'll bite. Why are absentee ballots the biggest problem?
  - masonic 8y ago
    By far the biggest vector for voter fraud.
- undersuit 8y ago
  And why wouldn't they dare to face it?
- curiousgal 8y ago
  The biggest problem is the electoral college.
  - __john 8y ago
    and what problem does the electoral college cause?
    - undersuit 8y ago
      The problem it was meant to fix is still disenfranchisement. The electoral representatives "are pledged and expected, but not required, to vote for the candidates they represent." Add in that states with small populations still get at least 3 votes and you get a situation where people say the electoral college "prevents the tyranny of the majority".
    - curiousgal 8y ago
      What problem does it solve nowadays? Why can't we elect our president directly?
diafygi 8y ago
For the HN crowd, if you're looking for highest impact per unit time spent, I'd recommend reaching out to your representatives and public offices (including local city reps), and volunteering to come in for a lunch and learn with the staff. There's an ocean of knowledge between the cybersecurity stuff we discuss here every day and what most staffers (in frankly more powerful positions than yours) have. Spending an hour over sandwiches with staffers talking about what phishing is and answering their questions about whatever they want is a great way to do your part save the democratic process. For example, I volunteered to do a lunch and learn with SF Dept for the Environment. I covered really simple stuff like looking at the url and domain before logging in and how to use a password manager. I also said, "If you have a stupid question you've always wanted to ask, now is your chance." Since you're not their curmudgeonly IT person, some feel more open to asking things they've always wanted to ask but felt would be met with a scoff. These are the people who eventually will interview Zuckerberg. Help them out.
- Fnoord 8y ago
  > "If you have a stupid question you've always wanted to ask, now is your chance." There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.
craftyguy 8y ago
> A competing bill introduced by Sen. Ron Wyden Oh FFS. My one of my senators does the right thing already and gives me no excuse to write to them. (I wrote anyways giving approval) I'm commenting on the last bit of this, linked to by the original article: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/08/if-it-doesnt-have-paper-ballots-and-automatic-audits-its-not-election-security https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/08/if-it-doesnt-have-pape...
ililla 8y ago
Okay, i have to say this. USA has a long history of meddling in other countries elections[1]. Now that Russia allegedly interfered with US elections, everyones losing it. No wonder my Non-US friends and many others in other countries are cynical of USA. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/sunday-review/russia-isnt-the-only-one-meddling-in-elections-we-do-it-too.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/sunday-review/russia-isnt...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
tomohawk 8y ago
It doesn't do any good to secure the voting machines if there is no verification of identity of voters, or effective controls on people voting multiple times. We have so little verification in this regard, and so little transparency, that there's actually a debate as to whether this even occurs or not and is a problem. Not really enough data to know. It would also help if they made ballots non-ambiguous. There should always be a "none of the above" choice so that a machine could validate correctness. Currently, if a choice is left blank, you don't know if the person meant "none of the above" or forgot to mark it, or tried to mark it but the marking failed. Adding a "none of the above" choice makes that problem go away, and makes it so that the ballot cannot be submitted until it is correct. Incidentally, if "none of the above" wins, then the election really should be run again, with new candidates.
- undersuit 8y ago
  >We have so little verification in this regard, and so little transparency, that there's actually a debate as to whether this even occurs or not and is a problem. Not really enough data to know. No there hasn't. The accusations of voter fraud have come from one party and one party only. They are lying out their teeth and the party will support them regardless. "He later admitted during cross-examination that he had no personal knowledge as to whether or not any of these individuals had in fact falsely asserted U.S. citizenship when they became registered to vote and he did not examine the facts of these individual cases." -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Spakovsky#False_claims_about_voter_fraud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Spakovsky#False_claim... "The vast majority of voter ID laws in the United States target only voter impersonation, of which there are only 31 documented cases in the United States from the 2000–2014 period" -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_impersonation_(United_States)#Estimates_of_frequency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_impersonation_(United_St... "the commission followed through on previous false claims by Trump that millions of illegal immigrants had voted in the 2016 United States presidential election" -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Advisory_Commission_on_Election_Integrity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Advisory_Commissi...
  - tomohawk 8y ago

47 points by raleighm 8y ago

tropo 8y ago

Nobody dares confront the biggest problem: absentee ballots.

diafygi 8y ago
I'll bite. Why are absentee ballots the biggest problem?
- masonic 8y ago
  By far the biggest vector for voter fraud.
undersuit 8y ago
And why wouldn't they dare to face it?
curiousgal 8y ago
The biggest problem is the electoral college.
- __john 8y ago
  and what problem does the electoral college cause?
  - undersuit 8y ago
    The problem it was meant to fix is still disenfranchisement. The electoral representatives "are pledged and expected, but not required, to vote for the candidates they represent." Add in that states with small populations still get at least 3 votes and you get a situation where people say the electoral college "prevents the tyranny of the majority".
  - curiousgal 8y ago
    What problem does it solve nowadays? Why can't we elect our president directly?

diafygi 8y ago

For the HN crowd, if you're looking for highest impact per unit time spent, I'd recommend reaching out to your representatives and public offices (including local city reps), and volunteering to come in for a lunch and learn with the staff. There's an ocean of knowledge between the cybersecurity stuff we discuss here every day and what most staffers (in frankly more powerful positions than yours) have. Spending an hour over sandwiches with staffers talking about what phishing is and answering their questions about whatever they want is a great way to do your part save the democratic process. For example, I volunteered to do a lunch and learn with SF Dept for the Environment. I covered really simple stuff like looking at the url and domain before logging in and how to use a password manager. I also said, "If you have a stupid question you've always wanted to ask, now is your chance." Since you're not their curmudgeonly IT person, some feel more open to asking things they've always wanted to ask but felt would be met with a scoff. These are the people who eventually will interview Zuckerberg. Help them out.

Fnoord 8y ago
> "If you have a stupid question you've always wanted to ask, now is your chance." There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

craftyguy 8y ago

> A competing bill introduced by Sen. Ron Wyden Oh FFS. My one of my senators does the right thing already and gives me no excuse to write to them. (I wrote anyways giving approval) I'm commenting on the last bit of this, linked to by the original article: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/08/if-it-doesnt-have-paper-ballots-and-automatic-audits-its-not-election-security https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/08/if-it-doesnt-have-pape...

ililla 8y ago

Okay, i have to say this. USA has a long history of meddling in other countries elections[1]. Now that Russia allegedly interfered with US elections, everyones losing it. No wonder my Non-US friends and many others in other countries are cynical of USA. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/sunday-review/russia-isnt-the-only-one-meddling-in-elections-we-do-it-too.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/sunday-review/russia-isnt...

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

tomohawk 8y ago

It doesn't do any good to secure the voting machines if there is no verification of identity of voters, or effective controls on people voting multiple times. We have so little verification in this regard, and so little transparency, that there's actually a debate as to whether this even occurs or not and is a problem. Not really enough data to know. It would also help if they made ballots non-ambiguous. There should always be a "none of the above" choice so that a machine could validate correctness. Currently, if a choice is left blank, you don't know if the person meant "none of the above" or forgot to mark it, or tried to mark it but the marking failed. Adding a "none of the above" choice makes that problem go away, and makes it so that the ballot cannot be submitted until it is correct. Incidentally, if "none of the above" wins, then the election really should be run again, with new candidates.

undersuit 8y ago
>We have so little verification in this regard, and so little transparency, that there's actually a debate as to whether this even occurs or not and is a problem. Not really enough data to know. No there hasn't. The accusations of voter fraud have come from one party and one party only. They are lying out their teeth and the party will support them regardless. "He later admitted during cross-examination that he had no personal knowledge as to whether or not any of these individuals had in fact falsely asserted U.S. citizenship when they became registered to vote and he did not examine the facts of these individual cases." -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Spakovsky#False_claims_about_voter_fraud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Spakovsky#False_claim... "The vast majority of voter ID laws in the United States target only voter impersonation, of which there are only 31 documented cases in the United States from the 2000–2014 period" -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_impersonation_(United_States)#Estimates_of_frequency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_impersonation_(United_St... "the commission followed through on previous false claims by Trump that millions of illegal immigrants had voted in the 2016 United States presidential election" -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Advisory_Commission_on_Election_Integrity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Advisory_Commissi...
- tomohawk 8y ago