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True, but they also did that while maintaining the lowest launch prices in the industry and presumably they can now decrease that even further if they need to.

by mrep 8y ago

True, but they also did that while maintaining the lowest launch prices in the industry and presumably they can now decrease that even further if they need to. So while it may not be the most efficient process, the overall process is much better than their competitors since they can launch for so much less money.

scrollaway 8y ago
At the end of the day that still doesn't really answer the question: "Do companies save money by mistreating employees?" I don't think you can answer that question by just looking at Tesla.
- Robotbeat 8y ago
  I'm not sure that's quite a fair way of wording that (legitimate) question. The whole company seems to be operating in the "burning the candle at both ends," not just the workers at the bottom. Also, it's not just "saving money" but pushing super hard to accomplish something extraordinary, i.e. generating new revenue, not just reducing costs. Additionally, the workers are partially compensated via stock options, so they share in the success of the company even if not through higher wages alone. So I'm not sure "mistreatment" is the right word to use. At the end of the day, SpaceX (and Tesla) are not for everyone forever. I am not in a station in life to want to join right now, but may in the future. And maybe this strenuous effort is not especially profitable for SpaceX because of the churn that it creates. But that churn IS helpful for the industry (and thus, in my opinion, society) at large because it has spread SpaceX's know-how throughout the US aerospace community and resulted in alumni founding probably dozens of companies that can leverage the lessons learned from SpaceX. But some people work well in that environment and stay long term (which isn't to say it can't be improved). So I am glad SpaceX is the way it is, and I hope they're successful in the future. But it also doesn't have to be the model for everyone else to copy. It might not work for everyone else, nor should it be expected to.
  - chrisbennet 8y ago
    ”Additionally, the workers are partially compensated via stock options, so they share in the success of the company even if not through higher wages alone.” I wonder if the constant burnout and churn keeps employees from vesting and thus ever collecting much if anything in stock?
- mrep 8y ago
  Of course you cannot answer that based on a single companies culture. I'm refuting the statement that "saving money by paying peanuts, grinding people down to burnout, and then constantly having to rehire/retrain new people as the old ones leave" is unanswerable in the current context based on 1 company especially because this company seems to be destroying their competition.

by mrep 8y ago

scrollaway 8y ago

At the end of the day that still doesn't really answer the question: "Do companies save money by mistreating employees?" I don't think you can answer that question by just looking at Tesla.

Robotbeat 8y ago
I'm not sure that's quite a fair way of wording that (legitimate) question. The whole company seems to be operating in the "burning the candle at both ends," not just the workers at the bottom. Also, it's not just "saving money" but pushing super hard to accomplish something extraordinary, i.e. generating new revenue, not just reducing costs. Additionally, the workers are partially compensated via stock options, so they share in the success of the company even if not through higher wages alone. So I'm not sure "mistreatment" is the right word to use. At the end of the day, SpaceX (and Tesla) are not for everyone forever. I am not in a station in life to want to join right now, but may in the future. And maybe this strenuous effort is not especially profitable for SpaceX because of the churn that it creates. But that churn IS helpful for the industry (and thus, in my opinion, society) at large because it has spread SpaceX's know-how throughout the US aerospace community and resulted in alumni founding probably dozens of companies that can leverage the lessons learned from SpaceX. But some people work well in that environment and stay long term (which isn't to say it can't be improved). So I am glad SpaceX is the way it is, and I hope they're successful in the future. But it also doesn't have to be the model for everyone else to copy. It might not work for everyone else, nor should it be expected to.
- chrisbennet 8y ago
  ”Additionally, the workers are partially compensated via stock options, so they share in the success of the company even if not through higher wages alone.” I wonder if the constant burnout and churn keeps employees from vesting and thus ever collecting much if anything in stock?
mrep 8y ago
Of course you cannot answer that based on a single companies culture. I'm refuting the statement that "saving money by paying peanuts, grinding people down to burnout, and then constantly having to rehire/retrain new people as the old ones leave" is unanswerable in the current context based on 1 company especially because this company seems to be destroying their competition.