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One point jumped out at me, which I haven't seen anyone respond to: > We are concerned about untrained amateurs going directly into trying to solve very diffic
by dwaltrip 8y ago
One point jumped out at me, which I haven't seen anyone respond to:
> We are concerned about untrained amateurs going directly into trying to solve very difficult global problems. They can then cause harm overall, by lowering the average quality of analysis or launching ill-considered projects due to a lack of experience or understanding. A PhD reduces the risk you’ll accidentally do this.
This point is operating off of a different fundamental paradigm than the comments here that are talking about opportunity cost. Opportunity cost is looking at personal benefit, while the above is looking at the effectiveness at solving hard, large-scale problems.
Obviously, money is important, but for many (often those who are fortunate enough to have reached a certain income level), it isn't the only thing or even the primary thing.
I don't have much insight into how true the point actually is, but I found it to be interesting.
- late2part 8y agoQuite often, these untrained amateurs create great solutions!
- stouset 8y agoYes, but the argument is that these untrained amateurs more often make grave errors from ignorance that make existing situations worse, or at best divert resources from more well-considered approaches. Which produces net better global outcomes I couldn’t say, though I have my own intuitions.
- vokep 8y agoNot really. As an untrained amateur myself hoping to create great solutions. Thing is its the exception, not the rule. Also with highly complex things (large scale - global problems) often it is possible for an untrained amateur to create a solution that is easy to communicate why it should be good, and it works in the short term. However awhile later, it is found that long term failure occurs
- Fomite 8y agoAnd quite often, they create toe-curlingly bad ones.
- intended 8y agoIn certain context - empty frontiers vs discovered/cultivated regions Take the Internet -no one had any models for it. You could come up with new innovations and then disrupt other industries or make entirely new frontiers. But in denser more studied areas - advances are incremental. People don’t come up with magic hashing functions for example. Or new engine designs - there’s only so much you can do without breaking emissions norms or fuel efficiency or end up having engines which end up getting damaged. BUT- the dream is always to find that missing or unthought of idea which changes the world. It’s just relatively easier with an open frontier.
- sebleon 8y agoIt's not an unreasonable opinion, but I doubt a PhD can make up for lack of real-world experience. Likely, the best way to get better at solving global problems is by doing just that for years, preferably alongside others with more experience. IMO learn to swim in the pool.
- dwaltrip 8y agoI've wondered if working for 10 or so years and then getting a PhD could be a good strategy.
- rebeccaskinner 8y agoI've been in the industry for 12 years and I've been deeply considering going back to school for a PhD. I love working on fundamental CS and I'd greatly enjoy the sort of work that I'd have access to during and after a PhD. The challenge is that, for folks who haven't won the equity lottery or racked up FAANG RSUs, it's a huge financial challenge to consider going from an engineering salary to PhD stipend. Considering I still have student loans from my BS, and a spouse who doesn't work that is also being supported on my salary, it's almost impossible to figure out the logistics of working on a PhD full time. I've found a few programs that are open to considering part-time candidates, but they are few and far between, and most of the ones who consider it still strongly recommend against it.
- xupybd 8y agoYeah this is the problem it’s way to hard to make ends meet later on in life. I wish I’d understood this earlier. Youth is wasted on the young.
- fouc 8y agoHave you heard of http://www.mrmoneymustache.com http://www.mrmoneymustache.com ? If you still have student loans after 12 years in the industry, you might want to re-examine your spending/saving patterns
- 8y ago
- solomatov 8y ago>We are concerned about untrained amateurs going directly into trying to solve very difficult global problems. It's a black and white thinking. Why people who don't have PhD are amateurs? Why person having MBA, MD, JD, MA or BS degree isn't professional?
- mehrdadn 8y agoHow is this black and white thinking? The sentence was "A PhD reduces the risk you’ll accidentally do this", not "a PhD will prevent this" or "you're an amateur if you only have a BS". It's taking about risks and likelihoods. That's not black and white thinking, that's pretty much the exact opposite.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y agoHeaven forbid anyone without a PhD engineer something like a spacecraft. We shouldn't let NASA get away with so many amateurs on the payroll.
- apersona 8y agoYou do know that most group supervisors have graduate degrees right? (At least at JPL, not sure about other NASA centers). Seniority tends to be based on your highest level of education (obviously there are exceptions - but exceptions are exceptions because they're rare, not the norm). There's no "single PhDless engineer" who engineers a whole spacecraft.
- purplezooey 8y agoyeah that one I jumped out at me too. Whoah, guy.
- Fomite 8y agoThis definitely speaks to some of my experiences, both interacting with people doing health-related work and in data science-related stuff.
- hyperpallium 8y agoA PhD won't make you smart, but does make you read the literature. You could do that on the job, but who would? ...and who would pay you to? Real world experience won't give you even the breadth of knowledge (unless you're working with all the world-leading experts) - let alone feeling the value of the literature, and the skills to access it. This helps you avoid well-known stupid mistakes, and concentrate your energies on all-new stupid mistakes. OTOH not knowing it won't work can help \_(ツ)_/
- sgillen 8y ago> This helps you avoid well-known stupid mistakes, and concentrate your energies on all-new stupid mistakes. I really like this, basically sums up my PhD experience so far.
- cosmic_ape 8y agoImagine a hospital where a new initiative is taken. Nurses follow doctors during their daily patient rounds for 6 months. Then the nurses are expected to do the rounds instead of the doctors. No doctors are left on the premises. Its not very clear cut, there are some blurry boundaries, but still, would you want people to use that hospital?
- fangsout 8y agoThat's an example that hits close to home as 2 close family members are Nurse Practitioners. This is a flawed example because Registered Nurses do not do the same job as a physician and are legally not allowed to learn how to do it. What if the nurses were allowed to shadow the physicians for 4 years? That would be called residency. What if you have Nurse Practitioners with a Nursing BS, 4 years of nursing experience, a Masters degree in NP, and 4 years of experience diagnosing, managing complex conditions, etc.? I personally know of several examples of Nurse Practitioners who are a drop-in replacement for an MD and that was achieved through work experience.
- cosmic_ape 8y agoJust to remove any doubt, I have a lot of respect for nurses. But the question was more about, say, should we close now all the MD schools and replace them by the alternative path you describe?
- sizzle 8y agoNurse practitioners are allowed to prescribe and see patients without a medical doctor in some states, you might not be far off...